Lithium vs AGM | GTAMotorcycle.com

Lithium vs AGM

Chris-CJ

Chris-CJ

Well-known member
The Yuasa GYZ16H AGM battery is currently on back order and there is the option of getting the Nococ NLP14 Lithium battery instead.
I believe that for most bikes manufactured in the recent past [5 - 10 years] the type of battery is transparent as long as the voltage and A/h is within spec.
Given that the price difference is less than $20, which battery would you recommend?
Thanks for your feedback!
 
If you don't mind paying the extra coin for a LiFePO4, then go for it.

Only downsides are cold weather charging and starts, slightly more expensive purchase price and you need to buy a separate charger specific to Lithium batteries. What you gain is better performance, smaller size/lighter weight, longer life and surviving deep discharges.
 
Lightcycle said:
If you don't mind paying the extra coin for a LiFePO4, then go for it.
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I'd love to get a super tiny one for the Super Cub, since it only needs it to run the lights. But finding one small enough to fit that doesn't cost as much as the bike itself is difficult.
 
slowbird said:
I'd love to get a super tiny one for the Super Cub, since it only needs it to run the lights. But finding one small enough to fit that doesn't cost as much as the bike itself is difficult.
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You can easily make one for about $50-60 from AliExpress, but the cells (4) A123, and a battery management board. Soldier it up and done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Be sure to buy one with built in battery management that is designed to handle charging systems not designed for lithium batteries. Any motorcycle that was designed for a lead acid battery will not otherwise charge a lithium battery properly and will damage it otherwise.

Having a built in BCM also allows you to continue to use your oldschool battery tenders and such as normal vs having to buy all new special chargers designed for lithium, etc.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Be sure to buy one with built in battery management that is designed to handle charging systems not designed for lithium batteries. Any motorcycle that was designed for a lead acid battery will not otherwise charge a lithium battery properly and will damage it otherwise.

Having a built in BCM also allows you to continue to use your oldschool battery tenders and such as normal vs having to buy all new special chargers designed for lithium, etc.
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Got the NOCO NLP 14, it has the BMS circuit.
The size and weight or lack of, is such a difference!
The battery comes with spacers that will allow it's fitment in the regular battery box.
 
-Maverick- said:
$20 difference? From what I'm seeing you can buy four AGM batteries for the price of one Lithium Ion.

Sent from my ZTE A2020U Pro using Tapatalk
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No disrespect, as the saying goes "you get what you pay for".

The AGM that I needed was $180, the Lithium $200. There were AGMs that were less costly than $180, but then those had less CCA and A/h.
 
slowbird said:
I'd love to get a super tiny one for the Super Cub, since it only needs it to run the lights. But finding one small enough to fit that doesn't cost as much as the bike itself is difficult.
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Upgrade your lights and use a standard battery, cheaper and easier. 6v led bulbs are about $30 for a 6v vintage bike.
 
I82l8 said:
After my 2nd AGM battery just died on me out of the blue in the Valley of the Gods I switched to Lithium (EarthX)

View attachment 57700
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I'm on season 6 on the oe battery in my suzuki, and year 8 on a standard flooded battery on my Yammie. Both start strong. My riding buddy has is an agm fanboi, he's replaced his ST AGM 3 times in 8 years.

Look after a lead acid battery and you should get 5+ years of service.
 
Mad Mike said:
I'm on season 6 on the oe battery in my suzuki, and year 8 on a standard flooded battery on my Yammie. Both start strong. My riding buddy has is an agm fanboi, he's replaced his ST AGM 3 times in 8 years.

Look after a lead acid battery and you should get 5+ years of service.
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Does "looking after" any of the three types of battery mean "always on a float charger, when not on the road"?

So many opinions out there:
- yes, always on a charger
- no, only sometime on a charger
- maybe charge to 80% and then unhook
 
What John Parker (Service Manager BMW Motorrad and Flat-Track Team Owner) says about float charging a lithium battery.....
"Do not keep it constantly on charge, measure the voltage and when it drops to about 10 volts, plug the battery to a lithium-specific charger. Unplug the charger when the charge is topped up".
 
LiFePo batteries have a very low self-discharge rate. I've found it best to simply ignore them until spring. At that point, if it won't start the engine, put the charger on until they reach 14.4 volts then start engine and unplug.

I have one that I have doubts about. 6 or 7 years old, and about 5 years ago, it was over-discharged one winter. I'm impressed that it recovered from that. You are not supposed to over-discharge this type of battery. If it doesn't get through this winter, it has still done well.
 
Brian P said:
LiFePo batteries have a very low self-discharge rate. I've found it best to simply ignore them until spring. At that point, if it won't start the engine, put the charger on until they reach 14.4 volts then start engine and unplug.

I have one that I have doubts about. 6 or 7 years old, and about 5 years ago, it was over-discharged one winter. I'm impressed that it recovered from that. You are not supposed to over-discharge this type of battery. If it doesn't get through this winter, it has still done well.
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Thanks Brian, appreciate that you shared this.

Neophytes like me, would have just plugged the charger to the battery thinking that it is the way to go.

On a side note, does the same principle apply to EVs (run 'em till minimum charge level before plugging in)?
 
Chris-CJ said:
On a side note, does the same principle apply to EVs (run 'em till minimum charge level before plugging in)?
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Not exactly (and I don't agree with that statement to begin with). There is a complicated relationship between the maximum charging level, the depth of discharge, storage temperature, state of charge at which the battery is stored, charge/discharge rates, etc and the number of charge-discharge cycles until the battery reaches (commonly) 70% of its original capacity. There are articles online about how to get the most life out of a lithium battery. For serious applications (EVs) battery management systems won't let you go out of bounds. (What it says is fully charged isn't actually quite fully charged, when it shuts you down showing 0% it's not actually quite fully discharged, it limits charging current if the temperature and state-of-charge warrant it, etc.)

With EVs as far as I can tell (and it's complicated) if you seriously want max life out of the batteries, don't charge it completely to 100% unless you need to (I usually set mine to 80% - 90%) and don't let it run completely out before charging it (but this is common sense, why risk running out on the road?), don't let the car sit at 100% charged for long periods, and try to avoid fast-charging if you don't have to ... but if you are going on a long trip and need to start out at 100% and DCFC along the way, don't sweat it, it won't break it. Chevy Bolt EV Battery Health After 100,000 Miles | Torque News
 
So my only question is….I bought a normal battery recently for my bike. Currently trickle charger for the winter.

What’s best to extend the life of it?

Keep it connected?
Disconnect it and just keep it in the warm house until needed?
Disconnect and keep it in cold garage (never gets below 2C)?
 
mimico_polak said:
So my only question is….I bought a normal battery recently for my bike. Currently trickle charger for the winter.

What’s best to extend the life of it?

Keep it connected?
Disconnect it and just keep it in the warm house until needed?
Disconnect and keep it in cold garage (never gets below 2C)?
Click to expand...
Disconnect and leave in bike charge monthly batteries discharge slower in the cold.

Sent from the future
 
Got my battery from here

They recommended that either AGM, Li-Po or Flooded, should never be kept on an always-on charger (even if it has a float mode).
Charge it, disconnect and when the voltage drops below optimum then charge again.

I think that is basically what John P, Brian, P and Scuba S, are also saying.

The AGM that I had been using lasted four years with it being left in the bike and on a float charger when the bike was parked. Seems like the "always on charger" method did not really do anything to extend battery life.
 
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