Light at the end of the tunnel - Cheaper Motorcycle Insurance July 1st

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Roadghost said:
I would like to put in perspective just how much Ontarians are being ripped off by insurance companies right here, right now. I hear all this BS about fraud in Ontario...
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Except it's not BS. It doesn't matter if we're safer drivers by a point or two here when our average claims are massively higher than other jurisdictions. For example, the average bodily injury claim in Alberta in 2014 was $12,785. In Ontario it was $143,630. Accident benefits payouts averaged $3,766 in Nova Scotia and $7,895 in Alberta but here in Ontario it was $31,785 (source).

So either Ontarians are made of egg shells and/or are all driving fragile and dangerous 1974 Pintos or there's fraud on massive scales here, what the insurance industry terms the "accident benefits economy." Indeed, there's probably a lot more of this going on than we think.

Here's the thing though: Can all of those fraudulent claims be proven to be coming from motorcyclists or are we being unfairly burdened with premium hikes of hundreds of percent to cover fraud coming largely from soccer moms and lunch-buckets driving minivans? I mean, I understand we're going to pay more because we are more at risk but the year over year increase we're facing is highly disproportionate unless it's us that is at the root of the fraud.
 
^^ Don't throw facts into conversations typically based on rhetoric and anger! ;)

There ARE big problems in this province that are a big part of why our rates our out of whack. Anyone denying such isn't basing their arguments on the facts.

If we got rid of all the issues would our rates still equal those of the aforementioned dirt-cheap policies from the USA? Nope, because unlike those policies we actually still have real-world coverage amounts mandated by law instead of paper thin policies that meet requirements but offer little in the way of actual protection, but they'd certainly be better.
 
The reason it is essential you are aware of the changes is because if you do not contact your insurance broker (before June 1, 2016) then your policy will be renewed with the new lower standard benefits, which may not suit your lifestyle needs.
 
I would recommend talking to your broker/agent about the coverage. i was told by the insurance company that since the coverage is reduced, you can buy up to meet your needs. when you renew your policy after june 1st, it will be with the new reduced coverage and the rate would be lowered a little bit.
 
Blacque Jacque Shellacque said:
I just received my 2016 renewal. TD jacked my rates up 23%. 2002, BMW R1150RS. I have had continuous MC insurance since 1979 with no claims. Clean driving record. Compared to what I read here, I guess I shouldn't complain too much. On the other hand, we are getting scammed!

The Ontario government website clearly shows what will happen June 1. Basic coverage is being reduced. Insurance companies will pay out less for accident benefits. Yet last year my accident benefits covers premium was $776, this year it's $925. An increase of 20% So in anticipation of having to pay out less to injured motorcyclist, they increased the rate by 20% !!! How about this. Collision last year was $37, this year it's $82. That works out to be a 120% increase for a 14 year old bike. So as if June 1, your rates won't drop, but the insurance companies obligations for payouts sure will. Bottom line is windfall profit for the insurance industry this year. Boys and girls we are being taken to the cleaners!.

While on the subject. It's been reported that Ontario has the highest insurance rates in North America. I have no doubt this is true for motorcycle rates. I have little doubt its due to profiteering here in good old Ontario. Think about this for a second. Compared to the USA.

We have shorter riding season.
Medical costs the the USA are outrageous when compared to Canada and Ontario.
We have helmet laws. In the USA many states do not, and as a result I have ridden in many places where it's actually rare to see a rider with a helmet!

Insurance is far less expensive in the US, but I have serious doubts that repairing bikes and injured helmet-less riders is cheaper down south.
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I had the same thing happen to me. I was with TD Meloche Monnex. They shifted me to TD general, and the information doesn't get passed right.
When I called and complained my insurance went RIGHT back down.
Call them. Odds are they don't have the number of years insured correct.
 
I have the sneaking suspicion that rates will decrease slightly in exchange for lower coverage, and increase greatly for equivalent coverage.
 
what happens to people who got a new policy in April or May?

can we call in after July 1 to get reduced coverage and rates?
 
The Lowered Rate wont be applied until your next renewal, since you are still covered with the higher coverage.

Anything on and after June 1st is with the new coverage.

I don't think you can call back and change your coverage to get a lower rate.


dina said:
what happens to people who got a new policy in April or May?

can we call in after July 1 to get reduced coverage and rates?
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AL3RT said:
The reason it is essential you are aware of the changes is because if you do not contact your insurance broker (before June 1, 2016) then your policy will be renewed with the new lower standard benefits, which may not suit your lifestyle needs.
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Is that the case though? My MC renewal date is June 21st, and I was assuming they'd just be insuring me like for like meaning very similar rates to before. The difference being IF I wanted to reduce my coverage, now I have the option to do so. If they auto-reduce, it sounds like a good way for the uninformed to get screwed over thinking they have close to the same coverage as before.

On a side note, I did call in about winter tires to a different insurer where I have my car...funny how the winter tire rebate worked out to essentially the same as the increase...so with the rebate essentially I ended up paying the same as I did before. This is pretty much what I am expecting to happen with all these changes a well -- More options for us motorists, but the same costs as before for less. If you want the same coverage as before, then get ready to pay more.
 
PrivatePilot said:
That's the thing...people compare our insurance to the dirt cheap USA insurance...but fail to understand or recognize that we're actually getting a crap ton more for the money.

It's easy to envy the guys in CA paying $250 for a year of insurance on their sport bikes, but if and when they get in an accident, they're disabled, and (given the litigious nature of the society where everyone sues at the drop of a hat) they end up in a lawsuit, that cheap insurance that gives them $100,000 of liability and a token amount of medical (barely enough to cover a hospital room visit and a few stitches) doesn't seem like such a good deal anymore when they're looking at loosing everything they own to pay for the aftermath.

Of course, a lot of riders in this province think they're invincible and that sort of thing will never happen to them so they don't need that coverage anyways..but of course, reality says otherwise. In the case of a serious accident everyone is glad to have all that coverage all of a sudden, and if someone decides to sue your *** for $1M you're not going to end up living in a box under a bridge somewhere for the rest of your life.

Don't mistake my statements for suggesting that we're still not being ripped off here in ON compared to many other provinces that offer similar coverage for less money (our fraud issues screw us still here), but it's STILL not fair to compare even those coverage amounts to the basic (almost pointless) basic plans in many US states.
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THANK YOU. So many people seem to either forget this part or just flat out ignore it. Although the US is much cheaper, comparing our insurance and coverage to them isn't apples to apples or even apples to oranges....it's more like apples to hand grenades.
 
AL3RT said:
The reason it is essential you are aware of the changes is because if you do not contact your insurance broker (before June 1, 2016) then your policy will be renewed with the new lower standard benefits, which may not suit your lifestyle needs.
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Apparently that's not true. I spoke to my agent at Allstate and it's illegal for them to make any automatic changes to your policy without the client's consent.
 
Krime said:
Apparently that's not true. I spoke to my agent at Allstate and it's illegal for them to make any automatic changes to your policy without the client's consent.
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When your policy comes up for renewal they send you a package with their new terms for your next year, which after the magic date in wuestion will be different as per this discussion – by accepting and renewing you effectively consent to the changes.

They cannot change anything mid term without your concert. Renewal time, different ballgame.
 
Well having been injured, one of the things that I have seen which causes payouts to be larger here in Ontario is caused BY the insurer. So I got injured, my family doctor says I need physio and laser/massage treatment. What does the insurer do they ask the physio and the laser massage providers to "assess" me to see if treatment is needed and submit a "treatment" plan, (how many sessions they are going to do, and the cost, Now not sure with Physio, but I know the massage clinic charges you $81 for a 45 minute massage if you walk in off the street. But under the fee schedule set up by FSCO for the insurer the therapist gets $56 for the same treatment under insurance).

The "assessments" can range from about $250 - $600 depending upon the clinic. Then I get sent to see a "soft tissue injury doctor specialist" for an assessment, that assessment lasted about 1 hour 50 minutes of which were discussing accident and my injuries with an assistant doc comes in and talks to me for maybe 4 minutes cost of assessment... $1700+ Then usually each time the providers submit a new treatment plan for ongoing treatment the insurer denies and we go to mediation that the insurer pays for... So the insurer can't claim the high costs are associated with fraud when THEY are the ones insisting on all these assessments, and then paying for a mediator to tell them they have no proof to deny treatment as recommended by the professionals.
 
IMO...the billing practices of the insurance and medical community should be the real focus to reduce our premiums in the short term. Does fraud occur? Sure it does. But, when a physiotherapist is allowed to charge the insurance company double or close to double the normal walk in rate ie $120 per session vs $70 to 60 per session, to me this is the real problem. I don't know how much is paid out annually for physio but if you cut that amount in half I suspect that there would be a huge dent in the injury claim numbers ppl see published for Ontario.
 
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I just spoke to my agent. It appears she has no clue. Will try to get another person in the office. She told me you can make adjustments to the policy but only to add coverage
 
Fyi found this if anyone is interested:

https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_changes10.aspx

In some ways I wonder just how much the reduced coverage actually matters...seems it was the maximums for catastrophic and non-catastrophic that took the biggest hit, but from what I've read most times insurance companies will fight to classify everything as minor if they can, which has always been a max of $3500 iirc.

I'll have to ask about income replacement as well when I renew -- Never really looked into that and whereas I'm not really worried about the car, I am a little with the bike (since it doesn't take much to cause significant injury).
 
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