Light at the end of the tunnel - Cheaper Motorcycle Insurance July 1st

Canadian Rider

Canadian Rider

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https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/autobulletins/2015a/Pages/a-06-15.aspx

"Many of you in Ontario are feeling the pinch of insurance premiums, the highest in North America. The main reason for high Ontario insurance was a series of changes to the act by Dalton McGuinty's government, vastly increasing long term benefits for accident victims (and those pretending to have long-term disability). This is why motorcyclists under 30 are hit hard, the industry subsidizes bad car drivers (this is universal). The changes back then increased payout for big accident from an average of $120000 to close to $2M. But, in 2016 , July 1, we will be able to opt out of some of these changes, to bring benefits in line with some better US states (many states have minimal benefits), and drop premiums. Among the changes:"

Lets hope this is true..
 
so your rate will be lower, if your coverage is lower?

Why would you want lower coverage, money aside, when it's hard enough as it is to get them to pay for things?
(I believed Hedo has a good writeup about his TD experience as a good example).
 
I'm a skeptic
 
nfq said:
so your rate will be lower, if your coverage is lower?

Why would you want lower coverage, money aside, when it's hard enough as it is to get them to pay for things?
(I believed Hedo has a good writeup about his TD experience as a good example).
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Ontario has the highest coverage in North America as standard. We will now be able to optionally reduce our coverage to hopefully save on premiums.

Is this ideal? No. Though we always complain against comparing insurance vs our neighbors down south, this should give us an option to choose from these lesser benefits. Also this helps deter fraud with new restrictions on long term care etc. for those scamming the system.
 
I'm not a fan of this extended strategy of combating fraud by reducing coverage. Largely it seems with the prior reductions on reduced medical & disability benefits, I have been able to buy back the old coverage levels for peanuts (like the cost of two meals at McDs). If it was standard for everyone it seems that it would be even cheaper - so who's saving any money in that scenario?
 
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Blackfin said:
For clarity, your quote comes from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/4bhsjm/ontario_insurance_changes_july_2016_a_light_on/

I glossed over the official FSCO legal verbiage but didn't notice a guarantee of lower rates for us, just more money for the insurance companies. :P

Will now read in more detail...
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Yea I was going to link the reddit thread but didn't know if that was allowed.
Anyway, yes theoretically, insurance companies could just pocket the extra money, but even if 1 guy lowers there rates everyone else will follow.
 
Sonduren said:
Yea I was going to link the reddit thread but didn't know if that was allowed.
Anyway, yes theoretically, insurance companies could just pocket the extra money, but even if 1 guy lowers there rates everyone else will follow.
Click to expand...

That hasn't been the case more often than not. Usually they're all within the same ballpark and raise rates accordingly.
 
Reduced rates for less coverage, until those rates increase greatly year over year and then you are left paying the same as now but with way less coverage.

They will also use the excuse of less people getting the higher coverage to increase prices on that end to offset, so the ones that want full coverage will pay even more expensive premiums and the ones that opt for less coverage will pay less for a period of time until the premiums increase. there is no wining folks
 
Yeah they can "cut coverage" doesn't equate to lower premiums. We have already seen reduced coverage in the past and it did NOT equate to lower premiums that was a "stretch goal"...lmao

But doesn't matter what the coverages are, try to get your insurer to pay for treatment as it is. I just went thru it again. my one provider submitted a treatment plan, for ongoing treatment the adjuster denied saying it was a "duplicate" we pointed out it was for continuing treatment and if denied we were going to mediation next day he approved it.
 
I got a message from my insurance company regarding this. Apparently it's effective June 1, not July 1.
 
I just received my 2016 renewal. TD jacked my rates up 23%. 2002, BMW R1150RS. I have had continuous MC insurance since 1979 with no claims. Clean driving record. Compared to what I read here, I guess I shouldn't complain too much. On the other hand, we are getting scammed!

The Ontario government website clearly shows what will happen June 1. Basic coverage is being reduced. Insurance companies will pay out less for accident benefits. Yet last year my accident benefits covers premium was $776, this year it's $925. An increase of 20% So in anticipation of having to pay out less to injured motorcyclist, they increased the rate by 20% !!! How about this. Collision last year was $37, this year it's $82. That works out to be a 120% increase for a 14 year old bike. So as if June 1, your rates won't drop, but the insurance companies obligations for payouts sure will. Bottom line is windfall profit for the insurance industry this year. Boys and girls we are being taken to the cleaners!.

While on the subject. It's been reported that Ontario has the highest insurance rates in North America. I have no doubt this is true for motorcycle rates. I have little doubt its due to profiteering here in good old Ontario. Think about this for a second. Compared to the USA.

We have shorter riding season.
Medical costs the the USA are outrageous when compared to Canada and Ontario.
We have helmet laws. In the USA many states do not, and as a result I have ridden in many places where it's actually rare to see a rider with a helmet!

Insurance is far less expensive in the US, but I have serious doubts that repairing bikes and injured helmet-less riders is cheaper down south.
 
Their limits are also lower than Ontario... For example in Florida all you need is PIP/PD coverage. Which means minimum 10,000 in Personal Injury Protection(per person) and 20,000 per accident, which btw is coverage if someone sues you as well. In Ontario the legal minimum for liability is 200,000 but industry standard is 1,000,000 if someone sues you. If you look at your policy under Accident Benefits you will see things like income replacement, medical rehabilitation, medical attendant care, etc. They have to buy all those which is extra. So when comparing how much they pay monthly make sure you compare apples to apples, and just remember their system is completely different, they don't have states with government insurance such ICBC which is probably subsidized a little, you are getting way more protection here, than you are over there. I guess this is one way to lower premiums. What they should be doing is attacking fraud and not killing AB coverage slowly.
 
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Sonduren said:
we always complain against comparing insurance vs our neighbors down south, this should give us an option to choose from these lesser benefits
Click to expand...

That's the thing...people compare our insurance to the dirt cheap USA insurance...but fail to understand or recognize that we're actually getting a crap ton more for the money.

It's easy to envy the guys in CA paying $250 for a year of insurance on their sport bikes, but if and when they get in an accident, they're disabled, and (given the litigious nature of the society where everyone sues at the drop of a hat) they end up in a lawsuit, that cheap insurance that gives them $100,000 of liability and a token amount of medical (barely enough to cover a hospital room visit and a few stitches) doesn't seem like such a good deal anymore when they're looking at loosing everything they own to pay for the aftermath.

Of course, a lot of riders in this province think they're invincible and that sort of thing will never happen to them so they don't need that coverage anyways..but of course, reality says otherwise. In the case of a serious accident everyone is glad to have all that coverage all of a sudden, and if someone decides to sue your *** for $1M you're not going to end up living in a box under a bridge somewhere for the rest of your life.

Don't mistake my statements for suggesting that we're still not being ripped off here in ON compared to many other provinces that offer similar coverage for less money (our fraud issues screw us still here), but it's STILL not fair to compare even those coverage amounts to the basic (almost pointless) basic plans in many US states.
 
I would like to put in perspective just how much Ontarians are being ripped off by insurance companies right here, right now. I hear all this BS about fraud in Ontario, how the liars at the insurance companies are paying out MORE than they do in other jurisdictions, how safer driving will somehow magically lower our insurance. Well it won't. It will however improve the bottom line of the people who are already making obscene profits by stealing from us. People need to understand the price of anything in a marketplace has nothing to do with what it costs to provide it, but with how much they can get people to pay for it. It's called "profit maximization" and it is taught in economics courses to all business students in university. How much you pay is based on how much they can get you to pay. When a service, like motor vehicle insurance, is made mandatory by the government we give these business scoundrels what is called a "captive market" where you are force to pay for the service without a choice.

But, to put in perspective just how much we are being ripped just take a look at the statistics. Although U.S. jurisdictions and other Canadian provinces are paying less for insurance, they are much more deadly drivers making far more claims than Ontarians. Just look at the fatality rates:

Fatality rates per 100,000 registrations of the safest U.S. states to drive in:

Massachusetts 7.37
Washington 8.49
Rhode Island 8.54
Connecticut 9.49
New Jersey 9.79
New Hampshire 10.14

Source: U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Report

Now take a look at Canada:

Ontario 6.2
Newfoundland 7.7
PEI 9.1
Quebec 9.4
Nova Scotia 10.2
Canada Overall: 9.5

Source: Transport Canada


I think if you look at the incredibly low 6.2 for Ontario PLUS the fact that we have 14 million people in this province, you can reasonably conclude that we are indeed being taken to the cleaners. Collision figures largely shadow the fatality rate. Ontario drivers are the safest in the country, yet they pay the most for insurance.
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