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Lidar

If you choose guilty with explanation, then it doesn't matter if the cop shows up or not as you've already admitted guilt, right?

What I've done in the past is on the ticket plead not guilty and requested trial.
You go to the trial early and the prosecutor calls out people's name.
One by one you go up to see the prosecutor and they try to intimidate you by saying if you still plan to fight the charge it could end up being higher if you lose, so 'do you still want to challenge it'?
The last two times I was in court, Milton and Mississauga, the prosecutor told people if the officer was there or not. However, unless you postponed the trial somehow the cop will likely be there these days -- they tend to book all of their trials on one day. My last two court cases the cop was in for at least 10 other people, so they showed up.

So, when it was my turn to see the prosecutor they asked me if I would be fighting it. Since I was guilty and the officer was there I said no, but I would appreciate a reduction if possible (in the politest possible way) and in both cases they reduced the speed travelled by about 20kph and to no points -- which is irrelevant to the insurance company anyway.

Also bear in mind... your three year countdown starts from when you are guilty -- i.e. basically when you pay the fine. If you think you don't stand much of a chance of getting off this, it might be better to pay up and admit guilt sooner than later so that you get that clock ticking.

For me, The Personal surcharges even on one ticket... so waiting 8 months for my trial just meant that my 3-year countdown started 8 months later. If I had paid immediately I might have gotten away with 6 months or more of them not knowing I had a ticket.
 
abkdt41 said:
So if i try to fight it and lose.... There is no chance of getting a reduced ticket?



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If you try and fight it only to lose, you could find your conviction being registered at the original UNLOWERED speed, and not the lowered speed that was actually written on the ticket itself.
 
The ticket was never reduced in the first place... He showed me the lidar and it showed 80....50 kmh zone

11B is impossible at this point



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Motorcycle Mike said:
If you choose guilty with explanation, then it doesn't matter if the cop shows up or not as you've already admitted guilt, right?

What I've done in the past is on the ticket plead not guilty and requested trial.
You go to the trial early and the prosecutor calls out people's name.
One by one you go up to see the prosecutor and they try to intimidate you by saying if you still plan to fight the charge it could end up being higher if you lose, so 'do you still want to challenge it'?
The last two times I was in court, Milton and Mississauga, the prosecutor told people if the officer was there or not. However, unless you postponed the trial somehow the cop will likely be there these days -- they tend to book all of their trials on one day. My last two court cases the cop was in for at least 10 other people, so they showed up.

So, when it was my turn to see the prosecutor they asked me if I would be fighting it. Since I was guilty and the officer was there I said no, but I would appreciate a reduction if possible (in the politest possible way) and in both cases they reduced the speed travelled by about 20kph and to no points -- which is irrelevant to the insurance company anyway.

Also bear in mind... your three year countdown starts from when you are guilty -- i.e. basically when you pay the fine. If you think you don't stand much of a chance of getting off this, it might be better to pay up and admit guilt sooner than later so that you get that clock ticking.

For me, The Personal surcharges even on one ticket... so waiting 8 months for my trial just meant that my 3-year countdown started 8 months later. If I had paid immediately I might have gotten away with 6 months or more of them not knowing I had a ticket.
Click to expand...
So do you tell the personal right away or wait till renewal?

When my last ticket came off my record i called the insurance company at the time (tD) and they said they can't change premiums mid way through

I'm with the personal now

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My ticket in Milton (Trafalger Road actually) was 85 in a 60 construction zone. It was an expensive ticket because of the construction zone.

The court reduced it to 70 in a 60 with no points and just a $60 fine, but as I said, the countdown for that ticket started much later.

If I were you I'd plead not guilty, request disclosure, and wait for the court date. If the officer is there when you get to the court, just talk to the prosecutor and ask for a reduction.

One other thing you could try... is English your first language? If not, you could go to court, challenge the charge, and then claim you don't understand and have them schedule a re-trial with a translator. One of my employees (who is Vietnamese) got off a ticket like this because the officer didn't show up at the re-trial.
 
abkdt41 said:
So do you tell the personal right away or wait till renewal?

When my last ticket came off my record i called the insurance company at the time (tD) and they said they can't change premiums mid way through

I'm with the personal now

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I didn't tell them, they found out. They must run license checks on a yearly basis or so.
 
Mostly sound advice.
You never plead not guilty unless you have a defence in law. If you are found guilty you will get the full fine. If the JP thinks you are wasting the court's time he can also add court costs.
If you plead guilty with an explanation, have a good explanation ready. Like I was just going as fast as everyone else. I didn't see the sign something along those lines.
The officer and the Crown have little latitude in reducing the actual charge. They can however reduce the speed on the ticket.
This may result in no points lost but it will probably result in an insurance increase.
 
Question: was the construction speed legally approved white signs or were they the red ones? I don't think any colour except for white is a legal speed limit sign yet many construction zones have the non-white signs.

..Tom
 
GOOD ONE TOM.
I believe the fines are doubled "when workers present". Were there any workers?
Was it a Saturday or Sunday. Were you riding with someone else you could call as a witness that there was no work going on at the time.
The orange signs are also a good point.
Go back with a camera and take some pictures.
 
Ideally, IF there was an issue with the speed limit signs or whether there were workers present, the OP should have whipped out his phone and taken some pics on the spot - including a picture of his vehicle together with the cop car so that the court can't question whether circumstances changed between the time of the offence and the time of the photos. Turn on the feature that includes the date and time in the picture if you have it.
 
As for the minor/major classification this will depend upon the OP's insurer. MOST companies use 49 and under as a minor, but not all do.

Yes if the speed limit signs are orange then they are ADVISORY signs not legal speed limit signage. But it will depend upon the original speed, if the signs are orange and say the limit is 50 but the regular white speed signs in the area say 60, or 70, then OP can still face the charge, ashe was exceeding those speeds.

The issue of photos is exactly as Brian has stated it would be impossible to prove that the signs that he photographed today are the same signs that were there on the date of offence, so they truly are of little to no substantive value. If he had a photo with the police cruiser and his bike with sign in the background that would have been gold.

Lastly, the crown will meet you at first attendance, and likely offer a reduced speed, I know one other poster stated that they refused and requested a trial and the crown made another reduced offer on the date of trial. This is highly unusual. in "most" courts the offer is made once. if you decline and opt for trial then if there was a reduced speed on the ticket then that is how the crown proceeds. In the OP'S case there was no reduction on the face of the ticket, so the crown can't say they are going for the "full speed". But they may initally offer the "normal fine for 30 over on an earlier resolution, and if that is rejected then go for the "double construction fine if you choose to go to trial.

In order for the crown to go for increased construction fine, the workers must "be present" that doesn't mean they have to be physically working but if the hours of that site are say 7 am - 7 pm then anytme during those hours the increased penalty will apply. Just because they may be "on lunch" and at an onsite trailer, they are still considered to be "onsite".
 
hedo2002 said:
In order for the crown to go for increased construction fine, the workers must "be present" that doesn't mean they have to be physically working but if the hours of that site are say 7 am - 7 pm then anytme during those hours the increased penalty will apply. Just because they may be "on lunch" and at an onsite trailer, they are still considered to be "onsite".
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That's crazy but good to know, thx hedo.
 
GreyGhost said:
That's crazy but good to know, thx hedo.
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Not really just because some of the crew has taken a break doesn't mean no one is still out working. Therefore, they just make it blanket. Otherwise the officer would have to "monitor" the workers and what constitutes "present" do they have to be within 1 metre of the road? 5 metres?, 10 metres?
 
hedo2002 said:
Not really just because some of the crew has taken a break doesn't mean no one is still out working. Therefore, they just make it blanket. Otherwise the officer would have to "monitor" the workers and what constitutes "present" do they have to be within 1 metre of the road? 5 metres?, 10 metres?
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I would think visible and within the right-of-way would be a better bar, but I understand your point.
 
Given the habits of road construction crews, I would take the photos of the signs anyway.
We seem to have days and even weeks sometimes where no work is done at all.
Yet the signs are still posted and the roadway which could be opened to full width is still shut down.
 
Thanks for all your help guys

Was able to get the charges withdrawn

Officer showed up but didnt bring any notes

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abkdt41 said:
Thanks for all your help guys

Was able to get the charges withdrawn

Officer showed up but didnt bring any notes

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Great outcome. Congrats, now slow down just a bit so you don't have any further interactions..lol
 
I hope you learned the most important lesson...drive safe...consider this is your second chance. At the end of the day, it's all a about your life and others on the road including children.
 
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