Learn These Ticket-Fighting Techniques...Almost 100% Fool-Proof!

[Ron Harper]

I agree with JC100 there is only ONE 100% "fool proof" way to avoid a conviction, drive within reason and appropriately and you will never find yourself in a court room. 100% certainty of NO convictions nor wasted time, "hoping" for a dismissal.

Absolutely. The problem with the original posting is that you have to be incredibly careful applying anecdotal stories from the Internet against specific cases before the court. Virtually every week I see self-represented Defendants grasping onto a segment of information they found on the Internet and attempting to apply it in the courtroom only to find themselves convicted.

 

[yodude]

Absolutely. The problem with the original posting is that you have to be incredibly careful applying anecdotal stories from the Internet against specific cases before the court. Virtually every week I see self-represented Defendants grasping onto a segment of information they found on the Internet and attempting to apply it in the courtroom only to find themselves convicted.

aka desperadoes & pals

 

[Brian P]

I agree with JC100 there is only ONE 100% "fool proof" way to avoid a conviction, drive within reason and appropriately and you will never find yourself in a court room. 100% certainty of NO convictions nor wasted time, "hoping" for a dismissal.

It's not 100% although it's as close as you can get. You can still find yourself in a court room if wrongly accused.

My parents wrongly got a seat belt ticket years ago, and if my dad said he was wearing his seat belt ... he was wearing his seat belt. Officer saw wrong.

I know of another situation in which the cops were using entrapment to write tickets for the "move over or slow down" law. Cop was parked in a driveway, not on the shoulder of the road. Cop really had an attitude about it, too.

 

[yodude]

[video=youtube;ZUnMT2Xd1t0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUnMT2Xd1t0[/video]

 

[Flywheel]

It's not 100% although it's as close as you can get. You can still find yourself in a court room if wrongly accused.

My parents wrongly got a seat belt ticket years ago, and if my dad said he was wearing his seat belt ... he was wearing his seat belt. Officer saw wrong.

I know of another situation in which the cops were using entrapment to write tickets for the "move over or slow down" law. Cop was parked in a driveway, not on the shoulder of the road. Cop really had an attitude about it, too.

+1. Years ago, a friend of mine was driving her kids home in an older Tercel. IIRC, only the front had shoulder belts, lap belts in the back. Officer pulls them over, accuses her of not buckling up the kids. When she points out the lap belts, he becomes angry and claims she told them to buckle up during the pullover. Tickets were written. The judge found the officer's theory somewhat amusing.

 

[Pegassus]

+1. Years ago, a friend of mine was driving her kids home in an older Tercel. IIRC, only the front had shoulder belts, lap belts in the back. Officer pulls them over, accuses her of not buckling up the kids. When she points out the lap belts, he becomes angry and claims she told them to buckle up during the pullover. Tickets were written. The judge found the officer's theory somewhat amusing.

Very easy to defeat ticket. I would ask the cop during cross-examination how in hell he could see my kids unbuckled without him having periscope vision.

 

[roadrash]

Just out of curiosity, say the disclosure package is not received. How does it work in court? Do you tell them before pleading not guilty or when your trial begins?

Edit: reread the OP and found the answer

"During Court:

I spoke to the prosecutor and he noted that the second disclosure package was not ready and he withdrew the ticket during check-in."

Great post! Very enlightening

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[GreyGhost]

Just out of curiosity, say the disclosure package is not received. How does it work in court? Do you tell them before pleading not guilty or when your trial begins?

Edit: reread the OP and found the answer

"During Court:

I spoke to the prosecutor and he noted that the second disclosure package was not ready and he withdrew the ticket during check-in."

Great post! Very enlightening

Sent from my LG-D852 using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

IME that experience is atypical. Normally you go to court and say disclosure was requested and not received (normally at the beginning before plea JP asks if you are ready to proceed, bring it up then). JP asks how long you need to review disclosure (pick something like 30 or 60 days, much more may draw comments from the JP). The JP asks Prosecution to give it to you that day and reschedules you for the requested time in the future.

 

[roadrash]

IME that experience is atypical. Normally you go to court and say disclosure was requested and not received (normally at the beginning before plea JP asks if you are ready to proceed, bring it up then). JP asks how long you need to review disclosure (pick something like 30 or 60 days, much more may draw comments from the JP). The JP asks Prosecution to give it to you that day and reschedules you for the requested time in the future.

When you tell them disclosure was not received, they provide it on the spot? If not, what are the 30-60 days for? Thanks

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[GreyGhost]

When you tell them disclosure was not received, they provide it on the spot? If not, what are the 30-60 days for? Thanks

Sent from my LG-D852 using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

I've seen it provided that day (eg. go to prosecutors office and they photocopy info and hand it to you). I haven't seen them physically hand a copy in court. Some defendants get obstinate and want disclosure faxed and won't receive it that day. The times I saw this, the JP was not at all impressed.

You need time to review disclosure to prepare your case. Theoretically you are requesting disclosure to determine what evidence the police used to charge you and find a reason that they made an error (as opposed to just a procedural tactic to give the justice system another chance for you to get off on a paperwork technicality).

 

[roadrash]

I've seen it provided that day (eg. go to prosecutors office and they photocopy info and hand it to you). I haven't seen them physically hand a copy in court. Some defendants get obstinate and want disclosure faxed and won't receive it that day. The times I saw this, the JP was not at all impressed.

You need time to review disclosure to prepare your case. Theoretically you are requesting disclosure to determine what evidence the police used to charge you and find a reason that they made an error (as opposed to just a procedural tactic to give the justice system another chance for you to get off on a paperwork technicality).

Thanks! Makes sense

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[Rob MacLennan]

I've seen it provided that day (eg. go to prosecutors office and they photocopy info and hand it to you). I haven't seen them physically hand a copy in court. Some defendants get obstinate and want disclosure faxed and won't receive it that day. The times I saw this, the JP was not at all impressed.

You need time to review disclosure to prepare your case. Theoretically you are requesting disclosure to determine what evidence the police used to charge you and find a reason that they made an error (as opposed to just a procedural tactic to give the justice system another chance for you to get off on a paperwork technicality).

If you made an appropriate and documented request for disclosure and only receive it on the day of trial, the JP should dismiss. Not all will, however.

 

[Evoex]

If you made an appropriate and documented request for disclosure and only receive it on the day of trial, the JP should dismiss. Not all will, however.

This.

I had the prosecution try to claim i never filed for it, when i produced receipts of registered letter and a dated copy of the disclosure request she suddenly 'found' my request in her pile of notes. She then whined to the JP and he requested i meet with the cop in the hallway to review his notes. Long story short i told the cop to go take a hike as he wasn't there to help me as he plays for the other team. I went back into court and told the JP 10 minutes in the hallway is not adequate to prepare a defense. The prosecution requested an adjournment and a new trial date was set. I filed for disclosure and also filed 11b (right to a speedy trial). We end up in court for round 2 and did the usual dance, JP approved my 11b request when prosecution came up short with disclosure again.

 

[GreyGhost]

If you made an appropriate and documented request for disclosure and only receive it on the day of trial, the JP should dismiss. Not all will, however.

Good to know. I haven't had that experience in the past, but I try not to visit them too often. The last time I west, I had a documented request 8 weeks before trial and JP scolded me for waiting to request (ticket was months before request) and didn't make a comment regarding the prosecution's comment about not having time in the last 8 weeks to photocopy the notes.

The scariest part is these untrained (and in some cases borderline useless) people also adjudicate cases with much greater impacts than traffic tickets (like environmental contamination).

 

[GreyGhost]

This.

I had the prosecution try to claim i never filed for it, when i produced receipts of registered letter and a dated copy of the disclosure request she suddenly 'found' my request in her pile of notes. She then whined to the JP and he requested i meet with the cop in the hallway to review his notes. Long story short i told the cop to go take a hike as he wasn't there to help me as he plays for the other team. I went back into court and told the JP 10 minutes in the hallway is not adequate to prepare a defense. The prosecution requested an adjournment and a new trial date was set. I filed for disclosure and also filed 11b (right to a speedy trial). We end up in court for round 2 and did the usual dance, JP approved my 11b request when prosecution came up short with disclosure again.

That was similar to my experience, but the JP blamed the delay on me (even though they had failed to provide disclocsure) so I was ineligible for 11b. Calling the JP an idiot wouldn't get me anywhere and it was a minor ticket so there wasn't much else I could do.

 

[roadrash]

Does losing the trial end up in increased fines/penalties ?

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[GreyGhost]

Does losing the trial end up in increased fines/penalties ?

Sent from my LG-D852 using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app

It can be much worse if it gets amended up (eg. you were going 49 over and the original ticket was written for 20 over, in court they can amend back to 49 over). You can beg for mercy on the fine (eg. I'm a student and can't afford a $500 red light ticket, JP may give you a $250 ticket and 90 days to pay it).

I can't remember, there may be some court charge, but if it's there it's <$20. It is immaterial in the grand scheme.

 

[micelli.i]

Anyone have recent experience on the 11b, in light of Jordan for HTA violations?

I have to agree with the people commenting on the disclosure request. I had a minor HTA offence a number of years ago (fine was $110, no demerit points), but decided to exercise my rights to a trial. I sent a disclosure letter immediately after I got the ticket and followed up with another one two weeks later.

Not sure if it was the Crown's office or the Court, but they contacted me to tell me they will not comply with my disclosure request, until a trial date had been set. I did not bother sending them a third letter, as I figured they had two already and would comply with my request, once the trial date was set. They did not.

First trial date was adjourned as I did not have disclosure. For whatever reason, second trial date was adjourned because the JP did not want to listen to my case (officer was there all times). Third trial date, the Crown had multiple people who wanted a trial; me included. After serving/filing my 11b, the Crown asked that my ticket be withdrawn.

I'm not sure if 11b motions will continue to be successful in HTA courts, because Jordan increased the delay from 9-11 months to 18 months. I think in my case, I was at 11.5 months. I doubt the Crown would have let me off so easily, had this happened after Jordan.