Kitchener/Waterloo area, c u next trackday riders thread! | Page 217 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Kitchener/Waterloo area, c u next trackday riders thread!

Forum Sponsor
Sebi said:
I was riding in yellow all day, I understand that passing in a corner is allowed in that group as long as you're not stuffing anyone or being overly aggressive. The proximity in the first picture I don't consider unsafe at all...... The camera field of view also dramatizes and distorts distance slightly.....

Hopefully that clarifies things a bit :)
Click to expand...

OK. Did you attend the riders' meeting and ask any questions on passing? The rules don't change from day to day. They were the same this past track day as they were last year.

Green - passing on straights only
Yellow - passing on straights and on brakes. Passes *ARE NOT ALLOWED* once the bike in front of you has tipped in
Red - passing allowed anywhere on track done in safety (no stuffing etc).

So, basically, you're choosing to use red rules in yellow. We (Randy and I) talked about all of the passing rules with you last year after the infamous black flag session, when we went through all the major rules very clearly.

And, being a bit of a photography buff, your claim of distance distortion being caused by the camera isnt quite correct. the motorcycles on the screen would have a severe warp if caused by fish-eye lens. You were indeed very very close.

Sure, it sounds like we're ragging on you and your friends, but you're displaying behaviour that has no place on track. Either a lack of understanding the rules or simply choosing to ignore them. Plain and simple, it's dangerous.
 
Last edited:
Sebi said:
The absolute only way a collision could have resulted is if the rider next to me decided to pit in (though we had already passed the pit in place anyway).
Click to expand...

Uhm, what? Going into a right hand turn you don't think a rider might come to the left to get a better line?
 
Yeah, don't even get me started on that one.

What bothers me about this is not so much that errors were made, we all make mistakes when we are learning, its part of the sport. What's alarming is doubling down on it. It's the inability to correlate responsibility with the mistakes and not seeing them as such. It's not a movie, we aren't going for the best camera shot on a closed set regardless of how much "room there is". What happens if another rider was lining up to pass you, and you didn't know they were behind you?

The point is, ride the racing line and be predictable, focus on your makers and your lines. There are others out there on track with you. If you get a great shot, awesome, if not, you should not be coming up with creative lines to do so. When we went out together for 4 laps in yellow, did you get that on camera? That is the type of footage to be focusing on and reviewing instead of this circus. That was a genuine learning opportunity. This is not meant to put anyone down, it's simply a reality check. Focus on what is important on the track, not who can get footage of who and how close you can get to each other. You mentioned video of Drew, did you watch his lines and try to replicate them? Keep in mind, if he's behind you, its his problem, don't worry about him, he'll get by just fine.

BigEviliDoer has a video with us and Scott last year where he crashed. He made a mistake, but accepted responsibility and saw where he was wrong. The rest of the video has footage of the red group with various passing going on and would be something good to study. Compare it to some of your video and see where the differences are.
 
BigEvilDoer said:
OK. Did you attend the riders' meeting and ask any questions on passing?
Yellow - passing on straights and on brakes. Passes *ARE NOT ALLOWED* once the bike in front of you has tipped in
Click to expand...
Of course I attended the meeting! I didn't pass the guy in the photo; or anyone after tip in for that matter. I followed the passing rules for yellow to my knowledge.

I had the camera going for all sessions; I did ask Drew if he can come out with me to show me some lines and I implemented them in the following sessions. I also have the footage of when Randy came out which was really helpful. For the video, I put together a compilation of the closer riders since I found it to be more exciting a video. The other 95% of the day was all much, much father away from other riders. If you'd like, I can post a video of a session in it's entirety for reference. The guy I got close to under braking was already braking himself so I expected him to not make drastic changes to his line under hard braking. Perhaps I got too close, next time I will leave more of a safety buffer.
 
smergy said:
What happens if another rider was lining up to pass you, and you didn't know they were behind you?
Click to expand...
I didn't make any changes to my line, I was on the outside race line and stuck to the outside. I just braked later than he did which is why I got too close to him.
 
Sebi said:
I didn't make any changes to my line, I was on the outside race line and stuck to the outside. I just braked later than he did which is why I got too close to him.
Click to expand...

There’s only one race line.

The rider in front owns the race line. Passing on the outside like that is very sketchy. If the rider in front of you decided to use the full width of the track, which is entirely normal and predictable, you would have had nowhere to go and you put yourself in that position.

If that rider went to the very left edge of the track, which is the proper race line, you would have been forced to make contact with them (your fault) or ride onto the grass and hope for the best (again, your fault).
 
caboose56 said:
There’s only one race line.

The rider in front owns the race line. Passing on the outside like that is very sketchy. If the rider in front of you decided to use the full width of the track, which is entirely normal and predictable, you would have had nowhere to go and you put yourself in that position.

If that rider went to the very left edge of the track, which is the proper race line, you would have been forced to make contact with them (your fault) or ride onto the grass and hope for the best (again, your fault).
Click to expand...

Yes, in hindsight that was a tight squeeze and I should have held off on it. I was wanting to chase Drew a bit and watch his lines
 
Sebi said:
Of course I attended the meeting! I didn't pass the guy in the photo; or anyone after tip in for that matter. I followed the passing rules for yellow to my knowledge.
Click to expand...

OK, which set of passing rules? the real ones or the incorrect ones???
Point is, in yellow, don't get up beside a bike in a turn, or make like you're going to pass on the outside.
Many riders will get freaked out by that - maybe turn their head to have a look etc.. and as we all know, your bike goes where you look. This single moment could end up in the rider losing his focus and line, coming right into you. Your fault.

Everyone here has commented on the reckless nature of your video. Chances are, there are quite a few more incidents on video if you do have all of the sessions of the day filmed.
We are trying to make you a better rider, to understand it's not all about being a Street Hero... Track riding is good fun, but the shenanigans have no place whatsoever. You're risking not only yourself, but everyone else's safety (and health - crashes hurt and regularly cause injuries).

Take a good solid look at yourself. Compare your skill and ability to Smergy, Doozer or Caboose. 3 exceptionally skilled riders and track/race veterans.
Notice they are all saying the same thing? Take their advice. Don't be a special snowflake that knows it all.
 
Sebi said:
Yes, in hindsight that was a tight squeeze and I should have held off on it. I was wanting to chase Drew a bit and watch his lines
Click to expand...

I would suggest a safer way to follow Drew would be to wave him by early on the straight.
 
Here's an example of a few good passing choices. I was following Lloyd for half the session to get some video as he was working on his body position, until we came up on a slower rider.

Starting at bout 8:00, notice that I was looking to pass out of 6 on the outside, couldn't make it safely, so chose to go deep into 7 and get a better drive. On the back straight I had room to pass Lloyd on the left, but that's his line, and he took it away as expected, so I pass him on the right. The next lap I came upon another guy on the back straight and could have passed him on the left, but chose the right, because it's safer.

[video=youtube_share;hQ275tbw9cE]https://youtu.be/hQ275tbw9cE[/video]
 
Last edited:
doozerdave said:
On the back straight I had room to pass Lloyd on the left, but that's his line, and he took it away as expected, so I pass him on the right.
Click to expand...

That's a very good example and I see what you mean, thank you for that. It's a much safer alternative than passing on the outside and it's what I should have done.

I also slowed down and got an alternate view from my first near crash I posted earlier. Definitely want to avoid that again... I wonder if that's something TC kicks in and corrects
[video=youtube_share;mjR7nkG-CR4]https://youtu.be/mjR7nkG-CR4[/video]
 
Last edited:
Most likely caused by not being smooth. Right before it happened there were some fairly erratic moves and you were likely not smooth on the throttle and aggressive in your inputs.

How many track days have you done now?
 
doozerdave said:
Most likely caused by not being smooth. Right before it happened there were some fairly erratic moves and you were likely not smooth on the throttle and aggressive in your inputs.

How many track days have you done now?
Click to expand...

Yea, I think I was too impatient/aggressive on corner exit. I don't know if I should try to improve my skills on being smooth or throw money at the problem in terms of a ttx Ohlins/proper slicks (I kid, I kid :D)

This was my 5th; I did 3 the year before and 1 the year before that.
 
Hmm... You've made it past the average of "4th track day correction crash". ;)

Suspension upgrades are never a bad thing, but traction control when learning to ride is debatable. I see lots of green group riders on S1000RR's who aren't learning respect for the throttle. The traction control is so good they can open the throttle on corner exit harder than I can on my 600 with no consequences. Not good for learning in my opinion.
 
doozerdave said:
Hmm... You've made it past the average of "4th track day correction crash". ;)

Suspension upgrades are never a bad thing, but traction control when learning to ride is debatable. I see lots of green group riders on S1000RR's who aren't learning respect for the throttle. The traction control is so good they can open the throttle on corner exit harder than I can on my 600 with no consequences. Not good for learning in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Yea, let's hope I can keep that trend going!

I also have mixed feelings for electronic rider assists. Perhaps it is best to learn without them and only after you've crafted your skills use them to help shave some lap times by getting on the gas that little bit earlier. Then again, people have a tendency to reject change. Since TC/electric assists are becoming the standard on new bike, one could say there is no point learning to handle the bike without it. (Though I am tempted to disagree with that)
 
still waiting on my shock, if it comes back in time I will, but its doubtful
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom