Kawasaki's 2013 new 250r. Are you ready?

N3WMAN said:
You guys crack me up. As much as FI and ABS are nice, they are by no means necessary on any bike.

You all talk like bike never ran without EFI and never stopped without ABS. Pretty sure there are thousands of Ninja 250's out there right now that run and stop just fine with Carbs and no ABS.
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Same thing for cars. Same thing for coal powered trains. Same thing for horse-run carts. Same thing for non-smartphone cellphones. Same thing for rotary phones. Same thing with tube tv's. Same thing with black and white tv's. Same thing with remote-less tv's with the one knob. Same thing for dial-up internet...anyhow you get the point

It works, but that technology just 'makes it better' and brings it in the current decade.
 
LePhillou said:
Same thing for cars. Same thing for coal powered trains. Same thing for horse-run carts. Same thing for non-smartphone cellphones. Same thing for rotary phones. Same thing with tube tv's. Same thing with black and white tv's. Same thing with remote-less tv's with the one knob. Same thing for dial-up internet...anyhow you get the point

It works, but that technology just 'makes it better' and brings it in the current decade.
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This pretty much sums it up.
 
N3WMAN said:
You guys crack me up. As much as FI and ABS are nice, they are by no means necessary on any bike.

You all talk like bike never ran without EFI and never stopped without ABS. Pretty sure there are thousands of Ninja 250's out there right now that run and stop just fine with Carbs and no ABS.
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they're the ones who'll probably never drive a stick shift either, because its too distracting to have to use both feet and take a hand off of the steering wheel...

to quote Homer "DOH!!, Why should my lungs have to do all the work when that machine can do it for me?"
 
LoneRonin said:
they're the ones who'll probably never drive a stick shift either, because its too distracting to have to use both feet and take a hand off of the steering wheel...

to quote Homer "DOH!!, Why should my lungs have to do all the work when that machine can do it for me?"
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Every single year there are threads on this forum where beginners have lowsided their bike in panic braking. Seems like it would be useful to me! And arguably the 250Rs on the market DON'T run fine, as their extremely small pilot jets are easily clogged.
 
What, the new 250 doesn't come with training wheels and My Little Pony bar-end streamers?!?! Don't tell me there isn't a little pink plastic woven basket on the front?!?! F that man!
 
N3WMAN said:
You all talk like bike never ran without EFI and never stopped without ABS. Pretty sure there are thousands of Ninja 250's out there right now that run and stop just fine with Carbs and no ABS.
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that's like my friend with the 15 year old base civic saying who needs ac and power door locks....

when I had my RZ500 back in the days.. i just wanted electric start and FI.. now I have it and wish I have a fuel gauge and shift indicator.. do i absolutely need them.. no, but human wants are unlimited..
 
1) I find the idea that a noob has any understanding of the differences in rider feel between FI and carburation silly. As a noob are you really interested in a feature that wont bring any noticeable benefit? And one that brings a level of complication to the understanding of the mechanisms that is also unnecessary? Part of the joy of your first bike, after you drop it, is pulling all the fairings off and fixing it, and getting to understand the mechanics of it. Most if not all of the work can be done yourself. Try doing that with the new uber tech bikes. You just hand that jazz over to the "technician" who rapes your wallet. Enjoy the simplicity of the noob experience...it really is fun, don't rush.

2) ABS is a great feature....but it's like training wheels. All the cool kids ride without it. Oh by the way, most of us learned to ride without it too. Locking the front will save some minor boo boo type accidents, but front lock accidents are minor anyways. It won't stop an endo flip, it wont stop being T-boned or T-boning someone. It wont stop a low side. A 250 will be hard pressed to high side but it wont stop that either. The false sense of security ABS gives is not worth the accident it saves; some little lock up as you over react to someone cutting you off. It's a nifty little feature, and if it doesn't come with an off switch....it's training wheels. Don't think you're much safer with ABS. This isn't like paddle shifting on cars or even automatic transmission, it's a minor safety feature.


All that being said.....ABS saved anyone in a knee down potential lowside? It seems to me that's another place ABS WONT help, as when the tire lets go, rotation wont save it, it's a lateral slip.

ABS has limited applications as far as I see, and is already building a dependent following from the posts I am reading here!
 
awyala said:
1) I find the idea that a noob has any understanding of the differences in rider feel between FI and carburation silly. As a noob are you really interested in a feature that wont bring any noticeable benefit? And one that brings a level of complication to the understanding of the mechanisms that is also unnecessary? Part of the joy of your first bike, after you drop it, is pulling all the fairings off and fixing it, and getting to understand the mechanics of it. Most if not all of the work can be done yourself. Try doing that with the new uber tech bikes. You just hand that jazz over to the "technician" who rapes your wallet. Enjoy the simplicity of the noob experience...it really is fun, don't rush.

2) ABS is a great feature....but it's like training wheels. All the cool kids ride without it. Oh by the way, most of us learned to ride without it too. Locking the front will save some minor boo boo type accidents, but front lock accidents are minor anyways. It won't stop an endo flip, it wont stop being T-boned or T-boning someone. It wont stop a low side. A 250 will be hard pressed to high side but it wont stop that either. The false sense of security ABS gives is not worth the accident it saves; some little lock up as you over react to someone cutting you off. It's a nifty little feature, and if it doesn't come with an off switch....it's training wheels. Don't think you're much safer with ABS. This isn't like paddle shifting on cars or even automatic transmission, it's a minor safety feature.


All that being said.....ABS saved anyone in a knee down potential lowside? It seems to me that's another place ABS WONT help, as when the tire lets go, rotation wont save it, it's a lateral slip.

ABS has limited applications as far as I see, and is already building a dependent following from the posts I am reading here!
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I have absolutely no desire to fiddle with the bike myself outside of the regular chain clean/lube and oil change, and I would be very happy if that would go away as well. Not everybody is a grease monkey.
I understand very well where ABS fits, thank you very much. I know what it can and what it cannot do. Minor safety feature? Whatever you say.
I still have trouble understanding why you brought up the highside in a ABS discussion...
And I said very clearly I don't want to start a debate over this, I guess one cannot have an opinion and express it...
Hey, I wonder if the CBR600RRA would be hard pressed to highside.
 
Alex_San said:
I have absolutely no desire to fiddle with the bike myself outside of the regular chain clean/lube and oil change, and I would be very happy if that would go away as well. Not everybody is a grease monkey.
I understand very well where ABS fits, thank you very much. I know what it can and what it cannot do. Minor safety feature? Whatever you say.
I still have trouble understanding why you brought up the highside in a ABS discussion...
And I said very clearly I don't want to start a debate over this, I guess one cannot have an opinion and express it...
Hey, I wonder if the CBR600RRA would be hard pressed to highside.
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My point about the highside is, it is yet another situation ABS cannot help you with. ABS is a limited safety feature that gives a false sense of confidence. It is hardly a make or brake feature on any bike, let alone a 250!

Additionally, the stopping / gripping power of the calipres of a 600ss is much more powerful than a 250cc. If a noob is ham fisting a 250s mushy / spongy calipres, one must really need to learn how to brake properly in the first place. ABS makes more sense on heavier bikes with more inertia, poor weight transfer or aggressive and senstive calipres. It doesn't make the same sense on a sporty 250 with softer brakes and sufficient front end loading. Besides if you hamfist braking on a 250 too early, before the weight transfer the brake will lock sooner. The ABS will brevent the locking sure, but the moderated gentler braking will not allow the front to load to maximum potential as would proper progressive braking. In the end, ABS kicking in too early due to poor braking technique will not provide maximum braking potential. Instead a noob rider should take their bike down to a local large parking lot and practice breaking progressively, reducing braking distances each time. ABS intruding too early wont allow for that necessary learning. Likewise, if you learn to brake properly, ABS should never really kick in at all!

The fact is ABS interupts and moderates one's braking, thus reducing effective braking distance in favour of stability. Reduced braking distances are one of the advantages of a motorcycle in the first instance, and ABS in its limited way provides one element of safety while detracting from other safety features.

Also, one of the features of ABS on a car is that it allows steering while pedal to the floor braking. This is not the case with ABS on bikes. It does not necessarily allow for braking and steering simultaneously, at least not anymore than normal braking and steering would. If you are braking that hard to the point of locking the front wheel, either the front is so loaded you can't steer anyways, or the front isnt loaded at all, and you grabbed a hand full of brake like a tool! In which case I doubt you have the sense of mind to steer past an obstacle if you react in that fashion. ABS introduction into motorcycling has not had the same impact or uptake that it had in cars. Nor has automatic transmission, or stereo systems, or AC, etc. They are 2 different beasts with different characteristics to make a thing like ABS universally advantageous.

Once again...not a make or brake issue.
 
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ABS seems like a feature that would help newer, less experienced riders such as me where panicking and grabbing the brake too hard in some situations might occur. Although you know not to brake too hard, the situation tends to change when you're put in a situation you've never experience before. As I am still learning, I'm still getting the feel of how much to brake (without abs) in an emergency stop situation.
 
awyala said:
What, the new 250 doesn't come with training wheels and My Little Pony bar-end streamers?!?!
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Please tell me someone makes those.
 
The KTM 990 SMT has ABS that will allow the rear wheell to lift off of the tarmac at max brake while cycling and maintaining control, doubt 90% of riders could do this even in the best of conditions....ABS for bikes have come a long way and I would love to have it on my bike....the new Bosch ones on the KTM that is...:) .. ok, ok i'll just take the whole bike...
 
LoneRonin said:
they're the ones who'll probably never drive a stick shift either, because its too distracting to have to use both feet and take a hand off of the steering wheel...

to quote Homer "DOH!!, Why should my lungs have to do all the work when that machine can do it for me?"
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I want a cupholder and a powered kick-stand. Without these, it's ******.
 
LoneRonin said:
they're the ones who'll probably never drive a stick shift either, because its too distracting to have to use both feet and take a hand off of the steering wheel...

to quote Homer "DOH!!, Why should my lungs have to do all the work when that machine can do it for me?"
Click to expand...

You're aware that this is a motorcycle forum, and we all (for the most part) ride bikes, right? A manual transmission is more difficult, yes, but the driving experience and control is the reward. What's the reward for having carbs, again?

Anyway, FI FTMFW: No worries about "cold starts", no ****** choke, no re-jetting when you mod it, no worries about bad gas gumming them up and having to take them apart and clean them (well, you CAN gum up a fuel injector, but it's not as common); just constant, predictable and controllable power. Not like I ride a 250 or will ever buy one, anyway...
 
Kri$han said:
You're aware that this is a motorcycle forum, and we all (for the most part) ride bikes, right? A manual transmission is more difficult, yes, but the driving experience and control is the reward. What's the reward for having carbs, again?

Anyway, FI FTMFW: No worries about "cold starts", no ****** choke, no re-jetting when you mod it, no worries about bad gas gumming them up and having to take them apart and clean them (well, you CAN gum up a fuel injector, but it's not as common); just constant, predictable and controllable power. Not like I ride a 250 or will ever buy one, anyway...
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Hang on there. It is easier to reconfigure carbs than FI for a modded bike. If you think motorcycle FI automatically compensates for mods, you're dreaming - most Kawasakis do not even have an O2 sensor. Plus keep in mind different generations of motorcycle FI - early versions were notorious for being hypersensitive to changes in throttle input - not good when you're trying to gradually roll on power in the middle of a corner. This is generally "fixed" these days either by having sub-throttles or throttle-by-wire - something you might not find on a cheaper FI setup like might be on a 250.

That said, carbs have developed problems in recent history that they did not use to have - they are being jetted leaner than before, in an attempt to play nice with emissions regulations, but resulting in things like poor rideability when the bike is cold, easily clogged jets, and generally bad part-throttle performance. I am still in favour of EFI for these reasons on a bike like this.
 
I'm on an 800 Honda now, but used to have a Kawi 250. Felt bigger and more solid to me than the honda 250. the new styling would defintely solidify my preference over the two.
 
From a marketing point of view, this move by Kawasaki nullifies the argument from cbr250 owners to buy that bike over a ninja because it is FI and ABS.
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