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Justin Time

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backmarkerducati said:
Interesting chart below, back on federal politics. This excludes interest on the debt, just program spending... WW2 was what it was spending wise, after that....

View attachment 46136

While individual governments cranked up the spending the next ones really didn't cut all that waste they promised or that they said was there.

Other than the Chretien Liberals of course. Mulroney looks to have flattened the curve which is not a bad thing but did he really do much, where were all the efficiencies compared to the immediate previous PET years (should have been a big drop????)? If we filter out the recession at the end of the PET years Mulroney didn't flatten it out all that much compared to the previous trend. If we filter out the 2008 recession Harper still actually increased spending, where was the gravy train then?

Junior is a chip off the old spending block so far....

Regardless, waste and inefficiencies don't seem to be stopping, left or right. The proverbial "gravy train" at best is just changing tracks.
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That’s a study in entitlement spending. Once the genie is out, it take a lot to put him back in.

wherever you see a flat spot, there were significant changes. Mulroney
J_F said:
I'll let one of your rightie buddies answer that for you

here's the result from MM's search link
nice to see that while he disagrees with me
he provides a link that supports my position
thanks man!

View attachment 46138
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1607470200432.png
 
He is going to keep winning until the conservative party gets it head out of it own ass. As long a all that is offered is criticisms no plan the dice will keep landing on liberal party.

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk
 
Mad Mike said:
Once the genie is out, it take a lot to put him back in.
Click to expand...

When I see the word genie, I don't associate it with Aladdin. Just sayin'.
33083f9bad6f16d8b30804289494e885.png
 
backmarkerducati said:
If there were real belt tightening the charts would look like Chretien's. We can't expect an immediate large drop as there are ongoing projects that will be completed or stopped, instead a downward trend should be seen the first couple years. Within three to four years we should expect to see real results. When it comes to waste, true waste, the gravy train, inefficiencies, etc....these can all be dealt with pretty quickly if they wanted to or could. As I said, the gravy train just changes tracks. Different coloured pigs at the trough are still pigs at the trough.

The data just does not back up the drama when it comes to stopping the gravy train.

A PM that served less than a year will of course have a lower yearly spend...

The chart does look really different when interest on the debt is added! There were times with high and low rates.

Chretien and team actually decreased the debt before Harper jacked it back up. Then Trudeau said hold my beer and watch this....
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I've posted this before.

financialpost.com

William Watson: Liberals try to convince us the Stephen Harper years were rife with plagues and hellfire

'The hurtful cuts of the Conservative years' is a funny way to describe the guy who ran the biggest nominal deficit in Canadian history
financialpost.com financialpost.com

some quotes;
The federal surplus for fiscal year 2005-6, at the very end of which Harper took over, was $13.2 billion. He ran surpluses for two more years but then in 2009-10 he broke the bank and posted a deficit of $56.4 billion, which in nominal terms was and remains an all-time record.
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But, fiscal conservatives that they were, they also said they were doing so strictly on a temporary basis. And they were true to their word. Within five years the $56-billion deficit was down to $0.6 billion — basically gone, as Harper and Flaherty had said it would be.
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What we observed post-Crash from the Harper government was purposeful rapid expansion of the deficit to deal with an economic emergency, followed by purposeful, adult control over spending to make sure the deficit did promptly come to heel.
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Evoex said:
I've posted this before.

financialpost.com

William Watson: Liberals try to convince us the Stephen Harper years were rife with plagues and hellfire

'The hurtful cuts of the Conservative years' is a funny way to describe the guy who ran the biggest nominal deficit in Canadian history
financialpost.com financialpost.com

some quotes;
Click to expand...
That is not what the chart shows. Harper increased spending before the the economic collapse. The collapse did not impact his spending retroactive, duh....

If there was all this waste, his spending prior to the collapse should have went down, it went up.....then way up once the collapse hit but I am not talking about that spike.
 
backmarkerducati said:
That is not what the chart shows. Harper increased spending before the the economic collapse. The collapse did not impact his spending retroactive, duh....

If there was all this waste, his spending prior to the collapse should have went down, it went up.....then way up once the collapse hit but I am not talking about that spike.
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Okay? So he did what almost every other government has done. I dont think i argued differently. He also reeled it back in.

I dont have so much faith in the current establishment, which let's set the record straight, is setting new records with no end in sight.
 
Evoex said:
Okay? So he did what almost every other government has done. I dont think i argued differently. He also reeled it back in.

I dont have so much faith in the current establishment, which let's set the record straight, is setting new records with no end in sight.
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Once again I am not saying Trudeau is any good....

What I am saying is no party (or their online self appointed surrogates) has any credibility when they talk about waste, gravy trains, etc. because the records show for most new PMs they do not actually reduce the spending (waste etc.).... Same in Ontario BTW, all the talk about Wynne spending and waste you would think Ford could have reduced it pre-COVID? This is all based on spending before interest on the debt. At best the growth slows, but that is not stopping the gravy train or reducing waste, it is just slowing it and shifting the recipients.

Yet we get the dog whistle drama and fear mongering, Trudeau is just like Wynne/McGuinty (and he likely is) but at the same time if O'Toole is anything like Ford or Harper the gravy train just changes tracks.

Exceptions that come to mind in modern history, Chretien Liberals federally and Harris PCs in Ontario. Everyone else just seems to shift the gravy train to a different track, if there is actual waste and rot it should be easy to at least start to cut it in the first year or two, the results tell the story. There are very few left or right that can actually manage the books. In the end it is all talk and no action.
 
It doesnt matter which party is elected, the gravy trains continue on. If there was no TV or News coverage of the elections the average citizen wouldnt be able to tell which party was in charge. Price of food, gas, hydro, taxes etc etc constantly creeps up while wages stagnate no matter which side is in office.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Once again I am not saying Trudeau is any good....

What I am saying is no party (or their online self appointed surrogates) has any credibility when they talk about waste, gravy trains, etc. because the records show for most new PMs they do not actually reduce the spending (waste etc.).... Same in Ontario BTW, all the talk about Wynne spending and waste you would think Ford could have reduced it pre-COVID? This is all based on spending before interest on the debt. At best the growth slows, but that is not stopping the gravy train or reducing waste, it is just slowing it and shifting the recipients.

Yet we get the dog whistle drama and fear mongering, Trudeau is just like Wynne/McGuinty (and he likely is) but at the same time if O'Toole is anything like Ford or Harper the gravy train just changes tracks.

Exceptions that come to mind in modern history, Chretien Liberals federally and Harris PCs in Ontario. Everyone else just seems to shift the gravy train to a different track, if there is actual waste and rot it should be easy to at least start to cut it in the first year or two, the results tell the story. There are very few left or right that can actually manage the books. In the end it is all talk and no action.
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Huh?

All I saw was article after article lambasting Ford on cuts since he won. Lol
 
Evoex said:
Huh?

All I saw was article after article lambasting Ford on cuts since he won. Lol
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Gravy train changed tracks, didn't even really slow down, look at his pre-COVID spending numbers and her outgoing numbers instead of Toronto Star headlines. It is exactly my point! Even his brother in Toronto flattened the spending curve compared to the outgoing idiot but where was all the cutting of waste and lower spending that was promised? If any of the narrative was really true we should see big downward trends in spending...

Yes we see arm waving and grand standing about saving millions in waste with cuts etc. while they increase the budget by billions somewhere else.

Once COVID hit it is expected that the spending will increase, so that cannot be compared....
 
backmarkerducati said:
That is not what the chart shows. Harper increased spending before the the economic collapse. The collapse did not impact his spending retroactive, duh....

If there was all this waste, his spending prior to the collapse should have went down, it went up.....then way up once the collapse hit but I am not talking about that spike.
Click to expand...
Harper didn’t increase spending before the collapse. Every new govt inherits some future spending commitments from prior govts. In tight elections sitting liberal govts often set landmines that are hard to roll back (entitlement spending). Should they lose power, the next regime is strapped to managing their costly commitments.
 
Mad Mike said:
Harper didn’t increase spending before the collapse. Every new govt inherits some future spending commitments from prior govts. In tight elections sitting liberal govts often set landmines that are hard to roll back (entitlement spending). Should they lose power, the next regime is strapped to managing their costly commitments.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why I want a chart where money is attributed to who signed the contract not who was stuck paying the bill.
 
GreyGhost said:
Which is exactly why I want a chart where money is attributed to who signed the contract not who was stuck paying the bill.
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Hard to do, so many categories and variables. If you use the example in ON, in the last election year Wynne school spending commitments increased spending from $27b to $32b for the first 2 years of the current gov’s term. Considering the lions share of this is salaries, the gift buys votes in the election, then straps the next regime with the challenging task of normalizing an entitlement.

Clever! but an expensive truck that uses public money for political agendas.
 
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