It took 3 hours to drive a 7-minute walk in Toronto Tuesday

[nobbie48]

4 currently, plus a rail line. Do we need more? Not if we plan accordingly.

Why add more highways? What we need is better transit. This will allow the highways to ease up IF, and only IF, you have a viable / reliable / affordable / timely access to transit.

I would love nothing more to go from Erindale Station - Scarborough Centre Station via transit...but I can't. I can...at 2x the time required by car. I'm not willing to do that, and I get my transit pass free!

I'm almost temped to apply to a downtown project because I can just hop on the train near my house, and then hop out at Union with a 5min walk to the office.

Let me dust off my CV.

I think suburbia killed Toronto.

Growing up in Parkdale riding the red rocket was so normal for getting around in the city.

Enter suburban growth and car centric living with no thought of walk to or public transit options, just drive. No corner stores etc. Drive to a mall. To make public transit work the residence has to be less than a quarter mile from a bus stop and service every 15 minutes. All the traffic controlling crescents and winding suburban streets make the walk longer while making public transit more difficult.

Toronto will never be Amsterdam.

 

[mimico_polak]

While i agree with you 100% @nobbie48 that ship has sailed.

We need to focus on how to make transit and access better or the same issues will continue to grow. Building residences in areas that are not prepared for the influx is just asking for trouble.

Traffic is one.
How about water and wastewater? Schooling? Emergency services? Hospitals?

There is so much planning that needs to take place first but the developers just care about the homes…let someone else deal with the long term ramifications of this growth.

 

[nobbie48]

While i agree with you 100% @nobbie48 that ship has sailed.

We need to focus on how to make transit and access better or the same issues will continue to grow. Building residences in areas that are not prepared for the influx is just asking for trouble.

Traffic is one.
How about water and wastewater? Schooling? Emergency services? Hospitals?

There is so much planning that needs to take place first but the developers just care about the homes…let someone else deal with the long term ramifications of this growth.

Throw in the "I don't want to be like everyone else syndrome" and it compounds the problem.

 

[Georg3__]

There’s too much construction in downtown so frustrating

 

[sburns]

While extreme in the video above commute times are on a steep increase in and around the GTA (as well as many other places)
in my area, I am always confused when I see them building 100's of homes and do nothing about the streets and road until well after the homes are built then they have the nerve to post signs like "making your commute better" blah blah blah. I 100% agree with @mimico_polak there needs to be a better timeline and spacing for large road work etc.

Excatly, they keep making the same infrastructure mistakes. I'm no civil engineer, but I get that if you build up a redientail area, or any area, you have to also address the transportation issues. But it's like they have this playbook and they keep doing the same bad desgins over and over again. More so when they keep promoting bus and bike lanes, but build up everything so close to a 2 lane road there is no room for future expansion.

 

[GreyGhost]

Excatly, they keep making the same infrastructure mistakes. I'm no civil engineer, but I get that if you build up a redientail area, or any area, you have to also address the transportation issues. But it's like they have this playbook and they keep doing the same bad desgins over and over again. More so when they keep promoting bus and bike lanes, but build up everything so close to a 2 lane road there is no room for future expansion.

The road design is sadly fixed. They picked a stupid design and force everyone to conform to the standard. A complete rethink of road design and lot fabric could be amazing (or amazingly bad if not done well).

 

[GreyGhost]

While i agree with you 100% @nobbie48 that ship has sailed.

We need to focus on how to make transit and access better or the same issues will continue to grow. Building residences in areas that are not prepared for the influx is just asking for trouble.

Traffic is one.
How about water and wastewater? Schooling? Emergency services? Hospitals?

There is so much planning that needs to take place first but the developers just care about the homes…let someone else deal with the long term ramifications of this growth.

Speaking of killing. Why dig up a concrete hellscape when it is cheaper and easier to cut down 100+ yo trees and pave over part of Osgoode gardens. They expect a free pass because they are waving the transit banner. Apparently all parties agreed to a third party review prior to killing trees but transit construction got bored of waiting and are moving ahead.

Edit:

Metrolinx will move ahead with plans to chop down historic trees on Osgoode Hall property, despite ongoing review

Metrolinx has given notice of its intent to cut down five historic trees on the grounds of Osgoode Hall after previously suggesting that it wouldn’t move forward with the clearing until the completion of an independent review.

www.cp24.com

 

[nobbie48]

Excatly, they keep making the same infrastructure mistakes. I'm no civil engineer, but I get that if you build up a redientail area, or any area, you have to also address the transportation issues. But it's like they have this playbook and they keep doing the same bad desgins over and over again. More so when they keep promoting bus and bike lanes, but build up everything so close to a 2 lane road there is no room for future expansion.

How big do you make transit corridors? When Canada's Wonderland was built it was way out in no man's land. There was an airport just east of it.

I'm amazed how with the number of 401lanes they've made room for since the late 60's when it was four lanes across the top.

 

[GreyGhost]

How big do you make transit corridors? When Canada's Wonderland was built it was way out in no man's land. There was an airport just east of it.

I'm amazed how with the number of 401lanes they've made room for since the late 60's when it was four lanes across the top.

After driving out of the city in rush hour for the first time in years, boo. Tons of lanes, all slow until well north of king road. I wish we could get to communicating self driving asap. Wouldn't be too hard to get lots more cars down the same asphalt. Even if it was only a lane or two with the rest for idiot human drivers.

 

[sburns]

How big do you make transit corridors? When Canada's Wonderland was built it was way out in no man's land. There was an airport just east of it.

I'm amazed how with the number of 401lanes they've made room for since the late 60's when it was four lanes across the top.

Well you go with something at least to modern standards. 2 lanes + bus lane + bike lane. Not just a single lane and hope for the best, and build up everything to the edge of the transit corridors. Or at least leave room for that so it can be build over time if immediate budged doesn't allow it.

401 is soooo badly designed. It doesn't matter how many lanes. It's also how they are implemented. Express should be whatever amount of lanes they are end to end. Not reduced and expanded over some sections. Lanes shouldn't force drivers into exit ramps causing all kinds of last minute lane shifts. 401 crossing the DVP, the valley itself should not have been paved over but bridged, instead of paved down and up. The exit ramps to DVP, 400, etc are way to short to handle any real volume of traffic from 1 series to the other. And 2 kilometers every exit plus a exchange from express to collector is also too short in most cases. Eliminating some of that would make it work better then more lanes badly desgined. But the volumes as they are, it might not matter because you can't get anywhere.

 

[mimico_polak]

Speaking of killing. Why dig up a concrete hellscape when it is cheaper and easier to cut down 100+ yo trees and pave over part of Osgoode gardens. They expect a free pass because they are waving the transit banner. Apparently all parties agreed to a third party review prior to killing trees but transit construction got bored of waiting and are moving ahead.

Edit:

Metrolinx will move ahead with plans to chop down historic trees on Osgoode Hall property, despite ongoing review

Metrolinx has given notice of its intent to cut down five historic trees on the grounds of Osgoode Hall after previously suggesting that it wouldn’t move forward with the clearing until the completion of an independent review.

www.cp24.com

That is literally the reason. Cost.

While I understand the benefit of the tree scape…they’re trees and a park surrounded by multiple privately owned buildings which would surely cost more to expropriate and go through the legal wrangling. Trees and a park will be forgotten quick enough.

I’m not familiar with the design of the station but trees can be uprooted, moved, and returned upon completion of the work.

The area is a poo show and looks tight as hell. Not many other options there.

 

[mimico_polak]

How big do you make transit corridors? When Canada's Wonderland was built it was way out in no man's land. There was an airport just east of it.

I'm amazed how with the number of 401lanes they've made room for since the late 60's when it was four lanes across the top.

You make them as big as they need to be.

Fact is a lot of rail is already built and available just the right agreements must be made with the owners. CN and CP rail will put up a fight.

The whole point of transit is to build it in a way so communities grow around it. If I had the map of the next 20 years of expansion plans…I’d be buying property in the next 1-2 waves of development plans.

 

[nobbie48]

You make them as big as they need to be.

Fact is a lot of rail is already built and available just the right agreements must be made with the owners. CN and CP rail will put up a fight.

The whole point of transit is to build it in a way so communities grow around it. If I had the map of the next 20 years of expansion plans…I’d be buying property in the next 1-2 waves of development plans.

My late next door neighbour was a draftsman for the MoT. He retired decades ago and a lot of the stuff he was involved with (427) has yet to be paved. The land acquisition was done ages ago.

Actual work seems to be excavation by glacier.

The position of CP and CN is understandable. What if an opportunity comes up for them but the government has the land?

You only sell something when it enables you to buy something more valuable.

One problem is the historical layout of Toronto roads is a spoke system which is workable if you want to go downtown. Not much is cross town, something you are working on.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

I won’t go to Toronto unless there’s no other option. Last time I was there was 5 years ago to pick up a frame from Cam @ My Little Bike Shop. Took me twice as long to get from the Gardiner to his shop on College than it did to get from Aldershot to tha Gardiner. Same leaving (fleeing?). Never again

 

[LePhillou]

After driving out of the city in rush hour for the first time in years, boo. Tons of lanes, all slow until well north of king road. I wish we could get to communicating self driving asap. Wouldn't be too hard to get lots more cars down the same asphalt. Even if it was only a lane or two with the rest for idiot human drivers.

Behaviour doesn't change the lack of capacity. Sure it'll flow slightly better but there will still be bottlenecks in the same place.
The only way to improve is to have more people per vehicle to reduce the total number of vehicles on the road

 

[GreyGhost]

Behaviour doesn't change the lack of capacity. Sure it'll flow slightly better but there will still be bottlenecks in the same place.
The only way to improve is to have more people per vehicle to reduce the total number of vehicles on the road

View attachment 58540

More people per vehicle is the best approach for capacity but automated cars can improve throughput if given a lane. They eliminate speed changes, accordioning, slowing to allow someone to merge, etc. Higher average speed and tighter vehicle spacing is possible with computers in charge so you can get more vehicles down the same strip of asphalt in the same time (assuming you can keep the moron humans out of the lane which may be possible with tight enough spacing).

Edit:

Interesting article. Even 5% of connected cars dispersed in the mess improve throughput for all by acting as a buffer for speed fluctuations.

Researchers: AI in connected cars eased rush hour congestion

As millions of Americans travel the interstates this Thanksgiving, many will encounter patches of traffic at a standstill for no apparent reason — no construction or accident. Researchers say the problem is you.

www.cp24.com

 

[nobbie48]

I won’t go to Toronto unless there’s no other option. Last time I was there was 5 years ago to pick up a frame from Cam @ My Little Bike Shop. Took me twice as long to get from the Gardiner to his shop on College than it did to get from Aldershot to tha Gardiner. Same leaving (fleeing?). Never again

We had relatives stay with us for a while some years back. Then I took them out for a drive in rush hour traffic. They left the next morning.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Those living in the city, I would hope most people just know when and when not to drive to certain places. Grab the subway if need be or maybe just not go at all. In my case (and I assume many) I also know the alternates that will typically be moving well even during rush hour, and I am not sharing other than many are 40 or lower zones so apps avoid them..... The core is the core but even there some routes move better than others and a quick look on Google tells me the construction bad spots, also transit is geared to get people in and out of the core so why ever drive to the core on a weekday???

I get stuck on the QEW and other 400 series highways on weekends far more often than in the city and we enjoy stuff all over the city...

 

[Baggsy]

Those living in the city, I would hope most people just know when and when not to drive to certain places. Grab the subway if need be or maybe just not go at all. In my case (and I assume many) I also know the alternates that will typically be moving well even during rush hour, and I am not sharing other than many are 40 or lower zones so apps avoid them..... The core is the core but even there some routes move better than others and a quick look on Google tells me the construction bad spots, also transit is geared to get people in and out of the core so why ever drive to the core on a weekday???

I get stuck on the QEW and other 400 series highways on weekends far more often than in the city and we enjoy stuff all over the city...

Many of those are now single lane with a bike lane now.
When I was a teen, one of the alternate ways downtown was Danforth Avenue/Bloor Street and down Jarvis.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Many of those are now single lane with a bike lane now.
When I was a teen, one of the alternate ways downtown was Danforth Avenue/Bloor Street and down Jarvis.

Danforth, Avenue, and Bloor are pretty much no goes traffic wise to get anywhere, and have been for the near 30 years I have lived/worked here.... basically main routes everyone and their half brother knows about and uses, even off peak. Jarvis is mostly on the no-go list but maybe for the last decade or so...

The bike lanes on the true alternates have had little impact as they were all single lane in each direction anyways....