Is Doug ford done?

[nobbie48]

This is going to piss off some people.

To me, the TYPICAL elementary school teacher was mommy's darling until kindergarten school followed by elementary school, high school, university school and teachers school. They typically get to rule a bunch of impressionable snot spreaders who think Miss Wombat is an angel. Teachers huddle together and max out their self serving lives, supported by unions. Where there is no competition (The civil service) the powers of unions should be very limited. If you're not typical disregard the criticism.

In the real world of working people if your plumbing job doesn't pay enough you become an electrician or vice versa.

A lot of educated snobs like to put down the trades because they have dirt under their fingernails. Most of the snobs live in decent houses or condos. If it wasn't for steel workers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters they'd be living in a buffalo skin teepee. If they were PETA they's be sleeping in a hollow log.

I am fortunate in that I have had old school teachers that went the extra yard for me but a few decades back when my daughter came home and asked me to to call my counsellor because Miss Wombat pushed her agenda on her I saw red.

One of the old time teachers I knew was embarrassed to walk a picket line, acting like a thug.

The conundrum is that to get responsible people for the humanities (Teachers, cops, nurses, etc) you have to pay them wages that enable them to be responsible to their families. However an attractive wage / work package also attracts those that relish every vacation day in the year and juvenile fan club.

What ever happened to the dignity of labour, humility, social responsibility, politicians with guts?

 

[nobbie48]

Unions are going to union. I only see them criticising, I don't see them coming up with viable solutions, some of the inherent constraints being "here's how many teachers we have, here's how much classroom space we have, here's how much money we have, here's how much day-care space we have given that many parents rely on school also being day-care". Doug Ford has expressed his desire to listen quite a few times. That doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with the outcome. It is absolutely impossible to please everyone in a situation like this.

I also don't see either the Liberals or NDP (in Ontario) coming up with viable solutions.

I think, under the circumstances, that Doug Ford has done okay taking into account the impossibility of pleasing everyone and the nonexistence of known, perfect, magic solutions that don't have down-sides.

A politician trying to cope with C-19 is tight rope walker crossing a chasm in a fog while having rotting vegetables thrown at him. Add to it the countless theorists on the internet and the denialists to get the bigger picture. Err on the side of caution and destroy the economy or throw caution the wind and find out that the "Immune children" need dialysis at age 40 and are bed ridden with arthritis at 50. It isn't a decision I would want to make. Parents with school aged children have the same tough short term / long term risk choices.

 

[nobbie48]

The kids are fine, they always were going to be. You could jam a hundred of the little f******** in a room and all would be well...with them...for now. The issue is other people. Parents, teachers, grandparents, anyone the kids come into contact with.

If they were totally serious about this then you'd hire all the teachers on the wait lists so classes are tiny. Use all the unused rooms at universities and colleges around the country. Put some classes online etc.

I still think Ford is doing what he can right now. Parents are a hard bunch to please.

Being a parent requires the ability to make tough decisions. Too strict and they run away from home, too lax and they never grow up. The decision to keep them out of school or push them in is the parent's responsibility. All the experts can do is keep everyone advised of the status of C-19. Wouldn't it be nice if someone else made the serious decisions and we could later blame and sue them.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The current teachers radio spots are irksome to me. "Doug ford didn't plan for safe reopening of schools" or whatever, blah blah.

What did the TEACHERS do in the last 4-6 months on that topic? Anything at all?

Oh, that's right, when this all began they were planning to strike again. Then, well, Covid...and suddenly people were worried about bigger fish and they quietly settled for new contracts and flew under the radar again. Until about 3 weeks ago at which point it's all "fear, uncertainty, doubt!" radio spots again.

Listen, I'm not anti union (I'm a union member), but the games the teachers unions are playing now are just ignorant at this point. As was mentioned, there IS no perfect silver bullet solution here, so either we *try* something and see if it works, or....what? Just cancel the year and go back to the online thing? Yeah, because the whole online learning thing was working so well (/s) from March to June. A full school year worth of that and kids might as well just flush and entire academic year down the toilet as they are NOT learning to the extent they do in a classroom environment.

Who knows where the road ahead is going to lead so far as schools, but sticking ones head in the sand and doing nothing wasn't a viable option either.

 

[jc100]

Being a parent requires the ability to make tough decisions. Too strict and they run away from home, too lax and they never grow up. The decision to keep them out of school or push them in is the parent's responsibility. All the experts can do is keep everyone advised of the status of C-19. Wouldn't it be nice if someone else made the serious decisions and we could later blame and sue them.

I feel sorry for anyone that has to spend reasonable time with kids. I can take my niece and nephew for about an hour max then they have to be returned to sender....mind you, that’s a whole hour every two years.

 

[Evoex]

I feel sorry for anyone that has to spend reasonable time with kids. I can take my niece and nephew for about an hour max then they have to be returned to sender....mind you, that’s a whole hour every two years.

amen!

 

[nobbie48]

The current teachers radio spots are irksome to me. "Doug ford didn't plan for safe reopening of schools" or whatever, blah blah.

What did the TEACHERS do in the last 4-6 months on that topic? Anything at all?

Oh, that's right, when this all began they were planning to strike again. Then, well, Covid...and suddenly people were worried about bigger fish and they quietly settled for new contracts and flew under the radar again. Until about 3 weeks ago at which point it's all "fear, uncertainty, doubt!" radio spots again.

Listen, I'm not anti union (I'm a union member), but the games the teachers unions are playing now are just ignorant at this point. As was mentioned, there IS no perfect silver bullet solution here, so either we *try* something and see if it works, or....what? Just cancel the year and go back to the online thing? Yeah, because the whole online learning thing was working so well (/s) from March to June. A full school year worth of that and kids might as well just flush and entire academic year down the toilet as they are NOT learning to the extent they do in a classroom environment.

Who knows where the road ahead is going to lead so far as schools, but sticking ones head in the sand and doing nothing wasn't a viable option either.

Where did anyone take a concise responsibility for a decision? Everyone wants the government to make the decision when no one knows the final outcome. Then it's the government's fault. Push someone into a premature decision and then drive the bus over them if they don't get it right.

 

[crankcall]

The number of people that KNOW a mask is a good idea, know you shouldn't hug people you have seen in weeks, know you should'nt go to the beach party your friends are throwing, know you shouldn't pack 12 people into an elevator.
Yet somehow the government needs to tell you whats safe, and unless it becomes a bylaw folks carry on.
Cant fix stupid.

 

[Green Meenie]

I believe there is also a growing number of people who are joining in with the deniers, at least to the degree they think the constant Covid warnings are overblown. Complacency can be as dangerous as stupidity.

 

[GreyGhost]

I believe there is also a growing number of people who are joining in with the deniers, at least to the degree they think the constant Covid warnings are overblown. Complacency can be as dangerous as stupidity.

I saw a headline today (but didn't bother reading the article because I was annoyed) that said roughly "25% of canadians poled believe that covid is overblown".

Exponential growth is a bugger. The whole point is you are either really close to zero or at an unacceptably high number. The area in the middle where people would be happy floating (you can see daily that it's bad but hospitals are able to cope effectively with all patients) is an unachievable goal. Once you get to that state, you will probably blow past into bad territory and need to do an Oz style lockdown to reset close to zero again prior to resuming life.

 

[Mad Mike]

I saw a headline today (but didn't bother reading the article because I was annoyed) that said roughly "25% of canadians poled believe that covid is overblown".

Exponential growth is a bugger. The whole point is you are either really close to zero or at an unacceptably high number. The area in the middle where people would be happy floating (you can see daily that it's bad but hospitals are able to cope effectively with all patients) is an unachievable goal. Once you get to that state, you will probably blow past into bad territory and need to do an Oz style lockdown to reset close to zero again prior to resuming life.

If you read the details, again your will see the millennial group is the most likely to disregard guidance on safety (masks in public, large public gatherings, physical distancing) - 75% in that age group declared they are relaxing adherence.

Millennials have a huge role to play as kids return to school -- they are almost exclusively the group responsible (parents) for school age children. If their behaviors increase infection rates, it's an easy hop to their children, then into schools. I really hope they step up their game -- spend energy on the fight to reduce transmission and less on complaining the gov't should be doing more for them as they catch and spread..

 

[PrivatePilot]

The only thing that will have an effect is sending some problem hotspot areas back to stage 2. Watch the crying and moaning when peoples favourite hangout closes again or they're inconvenienced in some other major way.

Still not getting the message? Back to stage 1 you go.

Never been a huge fan of Ford, but as I've said before, I do approve of how he's handling things with Covid, and I don't doubt he'll stand at that podium and slam some areas back to Stage 2 again if it becomes necessary. And he won't pussyfoot around the reasons either - he'll just say it like it needs to be said - "People are being stupid so this is the solution" more or less.

 

[nobbie48]

I saw a headline today (but didn't bother reading the article because I was annoyed) that said roughly "25% of canadians poled believe that covid is overblown".

Exponential growth is a bugger. The whole point is you are either really close to zero or at an unacceptably high number. The area in the middle where people would be happy floating (you can see daily that it's bad but hospitals are able to cope effectively with all patients) is an unachievable goal. Once you get to that state, you will probably blow past into bad territory and need to do an Oz style lockdown to reset close to zero again prior to resuming life.

One dead in 1700 in the USA and about half that in Canada = a fraction of a percent. If the long term care facilities were taken out of the equation the numbers are even lower. People don't understand small percentages. If it was Roman decimation, one in ten, 10%, it might have an effect.

If 10 riders did a ride every week all year and in 300 weeks, six years, one rider got killed, would it scare you?

What if there were thirty other crashes and a number of riders suffered life altering injuries?

Covid hasn't played all its cards yet.

 

[nobbie48]

The only thing that will have an effect is sending some problem hotspot areas back to stage 2. Watch the crying and moaning when peoples favourite hangout closes again or they're inconvenienced in some other major way.

Still not getting the message? Back to stage 1 you go.

Never been a huge fan of Ford, but as I've said before, I do approve of how he's handling things with Covid, and I don't doubt he'll stand at that podium and slam some areas back to Stage 2 again if it becomes necessary. And he won't pussyfoot around the reasons either - he'll just say it like it needs to be said - "People are being stupid so this is the solution" more or less.

The unfairness is that a bunch of yahoos buy some beer, do a hugfest and the rates soar. The complying restaurant and store owners get punished. The yahoos just buy more beer.

 

[Deleted member 50930]

They botched the school opening -_-"

He better enforce shutdowns instead of all speak if cases continue to rise.

 

[d4rktrooper788]

Teachers huddle together and max out their self serving lives, supported by unions. Where there is no competition (The civil service) the powers of unions should be very limited. If you're not typical disregard the criticism.

In the real world of working people if your plumbing job doesn't pay enough you become an electrician or vice versa.

This regression all started when the civil service became heavily unionized. I actually believe that unionization in government work forces should be heavily restricted, and here's why.

Under normal circumstances (private employer vs union), the employer has a fiduciary duty to someone, whether it's public shareholders, or private owners. The power dynamic is always (by and large) going to be the employer wanting to pay as little as possible, and the union wanting to get the most as possible for its members. They cancel out and usually land in the middle somewhere. This works nicely, for the most part.

When it's the government vs a union, the power dynamic is badly shifted. The government has no real fiduciary duty to anyone, except the taxpayer (and we know how that goes). Certain governments also have political agendas, and are totally fine with letting the unions get whatever they want, regardless of how unreasonable it is. This creates two problems. Firstly, it ends up being a bad deal for the taxpayer. Secondly, you end up with an over expansion of the public sector to the point where so many workers are directly dependent on the government for their income. Guess which parties they're going to vote for? The cycle repeats itself to the point where you hit a critical mass of employment by the government and after that it's impossible to shrink the public service in any meaningful way.

Teachers unions are some of the worst offenders too, because they not only provide education but also childcare. Which indirectly means they have all working people with kids under the age of 13/14 by the balls.

 

[J_F]

it's also a sign of a problem when a public union has the spare cash in a pension fund to buy an NHL franchise?
maybe things have run amok?

 

[Mad Mike]

They botched the school opening -_-"

He better enforce shutdowns instead of all speak if cases continue to rise.

I think the school boards botched the openings - it was their job, not the gov'ts. They had 6 months to plan, some boards were fine, some failed miserably.

In an unexpected twist, teachers feared students massing in their presence would bring COVID to them - sadly the majority of COVID cases counted in school openings so far are infected teachers that brought COVID to the kids.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

I don't doubt he'll stand at that podium and slam some areas back to Stage 2 again if it becomes necessary. And he won't pussyfoot around the reasons either - he'll just say it like it needs to be said - "People are being stupid so this is the solution" more or less.

Who had "these people are a few fries short of a Happy Meal" in the poll?

 

[Baggsy]

Who had "these people are a few fries short of a Happy Meal" in the poll?

A few pupils short of a class.

I feel sorry for the good teachers that got pulled down by this behavior.