is alcohol better than electricity? | GTAMotorcycle.com

is alcohol better than electricity?

Ethanol is terrible for the environment once you take farm input into consideration. A gas power plant charging a ev is still many times more efficient than the best internal combustion engine. Even after transmission losses etc. Nuclear and hydro are better still.

Sent from the future
 
Im not sure, what powers gas fired generating stations? is it via steam power? and what are the emissions? I would like to see some emission numbers for comparison. I'll look for some reading.
Nuclear is not a good idea, thats another argument. when corn grows it produces carbon. fracking gas doesn't, and fracking is destroying vast amounts of ground water in the process. its frightening. nothing is more important than water.
all things need to be considered.

I almost feel like we are being railroaded..
 
Im not sure, what powers gas fired generating stations? is it via steam power? and what are the emissions? I would like to see some emission numbers for comparison. I'll look for some reading.
Nuclear is not a good idea, thats another argument. when corn grows it produces carbon. fracking gas doesn't, and fracking is destroying vast amounts of ground water in the process. its frightening. nothing is more important than water.
all things need to be considered.

I almost feel like we are being railroaded..
Most natural gas fired generation is turbines. They operate at the highest temperatures they can which means they are more efficient and can extract more useful energy out of a unit of gas. Even reciprocating natural gas generation is more efficient than in car as they are 1+MW low speed engines. I will see if I can come up with some good sources of emissions data.
 
You need a good scientific comparison of NG generation vs burning in vehicles. I think you'll find vehicles are pretty damned bad compared to generation (when both are done well, if someone doesnt care about emissions, numbers can go to the moon).
 
Most natural gas fired generation is turbines. They operate at the highest temperatures they can which means they are more efficient and can extract more useful energy out of a unit of gas. Even reciprocating natural gas generation is more efficient than in car as they are 1+MW low speed engines. I will see if I can come up with some good sources of emissions data.
yes. let me know if you find something interesting. I believe opinions will vary depending on the source. good stuff.
 
yes. let me know if you find something interesting. I believe opinions will vary depending on the source. good stuff.
Alternative Fuels Data Center (US Gov). EV~ 30% C02 emissions vs ice vehicle. They provided their assumptions and referenced reports. You may want to look at other sources for capital environmental cost to produce EV or conventional as they do not attempt to address it and that is a reasonable line of questioning.


EPA has an emissions calculator where you can check any vehicle. It includes upstream emissions.


Canadian Energy Regulator has a cool webpage. Leave it set to Alberta and EV isn't looking great (a normal Camry is right in the thick of things with the EV's.) Set it to Ontario and EV emissions drop by an order of magnitude (and blow ICE out of the water). I don't trust their numbers for the volt as that car can vary so wildly depending on the usage pattern. It could be anywhere from almost full electric to series-hybrid that never touches the grid. Even with Albertas GHG intensive energy production (89% fossil fuel including 36% from coal), EV's are winning. Model X loses to Camry but that's not a fair comparison, it needs to be compared to a 6000 lb, 500 hp vehicle.


NRC Vehicle Emissions Calculator (similar to EPA but Canadian data).

 
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boyo - check your sources sometime :rolleyes: Try not to spread nonsense


If you are in Ontario gas fired turbines are rarely every used - only on a very hot day as they are a backup.
So for all intents and purposes, an EV in Ontario is carbon neutral.

Nuclear is carbon neutral and Canadian reactors very safe....there has been one running in Hamilton suburb near McMaster since the 50s ...go see it - walk over the nuclear reaction.
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The problem with nukes is cost.

Or you can continue to swallow Russian propaganda
 

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Levels of ethanol up to 15% are generally beneficial to the power development of internal combustion engines in older carbureted motorcycles, due to improving charge density, but of course much higher ethanol levels can be used in the fuel to increase the developed horsepower

AFJ
Where did this part come from? I hadn't heard that one before. Fuel energy density is down with ethanol and until you get to high ethanol blends you can't normally extract much more power (by dumping in a crap ton more air and fuel). Why does E15 improve charge density? I am assuming you would need to tune carb for E15 to get any power bump compared to E0 or E10?
 
Alcohol requires heat to vapourize it , so it cools and therefore increases fuel charge density, alcohols do not detonate like petroleum hydrocarbons.
reference: "Tuning For Speed" pages 50-51, by Phil Irving. (Of course you would know of Phil, eh? He autographed my copy.)

Over the years 1969 to the present with the same old motorcycle I have progressively re-tuned it as gasoline formulas changed from leaded to unleaded, to MMT, to gradually changing levels of alcohol from 0% to 5% to 10%. Have gone from a 120 or 130 main jet in the old Amal and now am at a 170 main jet and will probably buy a 180 and maybe a 190 main jet soon.

AFJ
Thanks. Gasoline requires heat to vapourize too so I am surprised to hear it makes that big a difference. Thanks for the reference and practical example.
 
Alcohol is better than electricity when you put it in your mouth.
 
boyo - check your sources sometime :rolleyes: Try not to spread nonsense


If you are in Ontario gas fired turbines are rarely every used - only on a very hot day as they are a backup.
So for all intents and purposes, an EV in Ontario is carbon neutral.

Nuclear is carbon neutral and Canadian reactors very safe....there has been one running in Hamilton suburb near McMaster since the 50s ...go see it - walk over the nuclear reaction.
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The problem with nukes is cost.

Or you can continue to swallow Russian propaganda
I've been in the McMaster reactor. Really cool and you'll never forget that glow (pic doesn't do it justice). Doesn't make any electrical power, only used for experiments and production of medical isotopes (super profitable). I don't even think it makes any useful heat, it has cooling towers but I don't think they run often. Not really a fair comparison for safety compared to reactors creating hundreds of megawatts of power. That's like comparing a lawnmower engine to the house sized engine in a ship. They share some common ideas but that's about it. Different fuel, different control, different process, different vessel, different containment and on and on.
 
Little bit of both. Wife wasn't impressed. Had to drag the carpet shampooer out.
Just go and give blood before you drink, like normal people.
 

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