Hold on let me see if im hearing this rite.. You want to know how to invest 10K and profit 5-10K from it every month?
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Investing
- Thread starter boooya
- Start date
No, they were 2 seperate questions; How much would need to be invested to clear 5G a month, and how much to clear 10G a month?
I think with a conservative rate of return, you'd need about 2 mil and 4 mil respectively.
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bboySushi
Well-known member
Yes, a bit over 1 mil or so will net you 5k a month playing conservatively. Keep in mind that equates to 60k a year, half of which is only subject to taxes, and most probably your portfolio would also include dividend-paying stocks for a little extra. 1 mil may take some time to amass, but if you manage it well, once you hit that area you can pretty much retire. (not to mention at that time your investments should only keep growing).
The best way to make money, is to make your money make money.
Oh, you would pretty much would have to self-manage in this example. Playing conservatively, any mutual fund, etc. would take 2-5% from you. But if you love watching your money grow, then you will love the stock market. It's not a chore to check stocks once you get into it, it's the most fun part of your day.
The best way to make money, is to make your money make money.
Oh, you would pretty much would have to self-manage in this example. Playing conservatively, any mutual fund, etc. would take 2-5% from you. But if you love watching your money grow, then you will love the stock market. It's not a chore to check stocks once you get into it, it's the most fun part of your day.
vrus
Well-known member
what is the best way to learn?
eljay
Well-known member
It's impossible unless you get an MBA from an Ivy League school.
Or finance.google.com
zerohedge.com helps with cynicism as well.
Frankly read read read is the only way. And don't fall for services offering you ways to get rich.
If you follow financial news perpetually, it starts to have a soap opera effect, where you always want to find out what is happening next. It's all bewildering at first, and newsflow isn't going to give you a theoretical understanding, but you'll never put in the effort to learn theory if you don't give a **** anyway.
There's no quick way to become master of the universe, but google is your friend.
Or finance.google.com
zerohedge.com helps with cynicism as well.
Frankly read read read is the only way. And don't fall for services offering you ways to get rich.
If you follow financial news perpetually, it starts to have a soap opera effect, where you always want to find out what is happening next. It's all bewildering at first, and newsflow isn't going to give you a theoretical understanding, but you'll never put in the effort to learn theory if you don't give a **** anyway.
There's no quick way to become master of the universe, but google is your friend.
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toshison
Well-known member
If you look at it as a percentage game, its easier to come up with an answer. Hypothetically, If you had a mixture of fairly stable, good quality dividend yielding stocks, you would probably be looking at 5-8% per year. A lot of these stocks generally grow in value (some do tank though) while providing a dividend but the rate at which they grow really varies a lot by company to company. Just look at the charts for Inter pipeline Fund or Riocan and to demonstrate how a high yield dividend stock can tank very fast: Poseidon Concepts.
Many stocks with the potential to grow substantially do not issue dividends so the whole point in holding them is the hope they appreciate in value. Its much more difficult to pinpoint ROI on these because you could have a stock like Apple that could yield you 1000% gain in a few years or you could end up holding a stock that could go to $0 and get delisted. You know, you could of bought RIM at <$7 and sold it for $18 a week or so ago thus more than doubling your month in less than six months. Risk usually has an impact on the reward. So it can vary a lot and everybody makes good choices and some bad choices so there is no perfect science in this. You might not need to trade 15 times a day but you do need to be somewhat aware of whats happening with your investment. If you don't want to do that, then you'd need to find somebody to manage your money.
Its important to remember that playing the stock market is like swimming with sharks. It can be fun, exciting and rewarding but it can also bite you in the behind and drag you into the abyss.
But yeah, you need a million bucks.
OpenGambit
Banned
If you are looking to fix your income, expect 4 % back.
so 1.5 million for 60k a year or 5 k a month.
so 1.5 million for 60k a year or 5 k a month.
Sounds like you need to look up how to do TVM (Time Value Money) calculations.
If you want more information, sit down with a proper Certified Financial Planner ( a good resource is advocis.ca).
But yeah, roughly speaking, You need about $1.25 Mill in order to take out $5K every month for 25 Years if you're getting 5%/yr on your money.
Thanks for the suggestions - I'm definitely going to look into each one.
I've always wanted to get into stocks, but I'm put off by how it can't be broken down into a sort of science, even if I'm willing to dedicate the time and effort to study it. Outside of stocks, I've never invested unless it was a low risk with a high reward. And even if I commit to learning, I can't see that ever being feasible with stocks.
My mind works with figures and I've always been about consistency when it comes to income (ie I never take high-paying commission jobs because I've always felt it was a better idea to put in the extra effort looking for one that pays just as much on a regular basis). I just don't know how much I can realistically expect to make even if I get really good at it. And sometimes it seems when you break it down to the hours spent worrying and checking, you're really not making all that much.
I've always wanted to get into stocks, but I'm put off by how it can't be broken down into a sort of science, even if I'm willing to dedicate the time and effort to study it. Outside of stocks, I've never invested unless it was a low risk with a high reward. And even if I commit to learning, I can't see that ever being feasible with stocks.
My mind works with figures and I've always been about consistency when it comes to income (ie I never take high-paying commission jobs because I've always felt it was a better idea to put in the extra effort looking for one that pays just as much on a regular basis). I just don't know how much I can realistically expect to make even if I get really good at it. And sometimes it seems when you break it down to the hours spent worrying and checking, you're really not making all that much.
johnp
Well-known member
[1] about how much money you need to generate $xxx/year, a rule of thumb is that you can take 4%/annum forever, so above comments are pretty good. Not sure if this rule of thumb is still good though but google will help.
[2] now, about getting good at stocks and then making that kind of money? it's probably just not going to happen. If you're amazing you will beat the market by about 2%/year after fees - I made up the 2% number but most participants underperform after fees. I'm sure google will confirm very few do market returns + 2%. So let's assume the market will go up by 6%/year (which is on the high side of current estimates) so you are great and make 8%/year. The "rule of 72's" says 8%/year doubles your money every (72/8=) 9 years. Now, starting with what you now have, you figure out if you can make the needed $2million in your lifetime - even if you're an amazing investor. For example if you have $125K now it will take you 36 years to get to $2million - assuming no taxes are paid.
[2] now, about getting good at stocks and then making that kind of money? it's probably just not going to happen. If you're amazing you will beat the market by about 2%/year after fees - I made up the 2% number but most participants underperform after fees. I'm sure google will confirm very few do market returns + 2%. So let's assume the market will go up by 6%/year (which is on the high side of current estimates) so you are great and make 8%/year. The "rule of 72's" says 8%/year doubles your money every (72/8=) 9 years. Now, starting with what you now have, you figure out if you can make the needed $2million in your lifetime - even if you're an amazing investor. For example if you have $125K now it will take you 36 years to get to $2million - assuming no taxes are paid.
And how much will $2 million in 2049 be worth in 2013 dollars?
eljay
Well-known member
hehe, he forgot inflation too, the secret tax. Assuming 50% tax on income and a 4% rate of inflation (no really, it's higher than 1.2%), 125k at 8%x0.5 - 4% in 2049 will be worth....
125k
125k
Take a basic level finance course. If you want to take one at YorkU I can recommend a good one. Don`t take any financial accounting ones. The basic ones are awesome and can give you an idea of how to do basic calculations for Future value (FV) and present value (PV) and get you in the mindset of thinking "smart"
eljay
Well-known member
whooooa!!! don't pay for courses!!! that's what idiots like me got student loans for.
I totally forgot to mention this earlier...
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/core-finance/interest-tutorial
Start there, browse by interest, totally awesome way to learn.
I recommend micro/macro economics. Don't try to jump far into more advanced topics, just follow through the sections in the orders listed. They are generally listed in order of difficulty.
If you get through all that, you've pretty much done a finance degree.
I totally forgot to mention this earlier...
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/core-finance/interest-tutorial
Start there, browse by interest, totally awesome way to learn.
I recommend micro/macro economics. Don't try to jump far into more advanced topics, just follow through the sections in the orders listed. They are generally listed in order of difficulty.
If you get through all that, you've pretty much done a finance degree.
johnp
Well-known member
What has been a great way for financial independence is to work for the govt. A teacher or the military for example. Join the army at 18 and retire 25 years later with free education, maybe a degree, and a full INDEXED pension. Now you're 43 years old, got an INDEXED pension, great training and probably can land a good job in industry.
The key is the indexed pension, which only govt. workers get now. It's worth millions. If you tried to buy one from an insurance company, say, they wouldn't sell it to you for any amount of money. Why? Because there's no way to price it, since future inflation can't be predicted. The govt. pensions are pretty much priceless.
The key is the indexed pension, which only govt. workers get now. It's worth millions. If you tried to buy one from an insurance company, say, they wouldn't sell it to you for any amount of money. Why? Because there's no way to price it, since future inflation can't be predicted. The govt. pensions are pretty much priceless.
That MBA comment above made me choke on my coffee just before laughing my *** off! Not that an MBA is not valuable but in the markets they are about as useful as a rock at a frisbee tourny! Warren Buffett said it best years ago... investing is simple but not easy! My friend Danny came a close second... "We're not building a watch"
I have 3 main rules that I always follow and a few smaller ones that come in to play occassionally as well:
1. The trend is your friend. Simple right? If the overall market is trending up than you want be in the market or what we call long. ie, buy stocks. If the trend is down you want to be out of the market or be short selling, depending on your risk tolerance. Anything that you buy or short sell should be trending the same direction as the market.
2. Never own an airline stock - some lunatic may blow one up or some battery may catch fire or some delivery date will be missed
3. Never short oil - some lunatic may blow up a pipeline.....
The last two are just personal comfort things. If you are an investor looking for long term capital appreciation pick up William J O'Neil's book, "How to Make Money in Stocks." If you are a trader looking for more frequent, and smaller profit trades pick up "Getting Started with Technical Analysis" by Jack Schwagger. Both cheap books and you'll smoke the returns of most fund mangers, CFAs and almost all MBAs.
Consider this though... investing is like going to a track day. If this is your first season of getting out and you are trying to lead the pack (quick buck), in all probability you are going to end up in the rhubarb. Those that have been training for years are the ones that will push you until you crash. (ie, take your money) Markets are the same. So, dont be greedy and dont try stupid ****!
Just my nickel (cause they took away my cents!)
I have 3 main rules that I always follow and a few smaller ones that come in to play occassionally as well:
1. The trend is your friend. Simple right? If the overall market is trending up than you want be in the market or what we call long. ie, buy stocks. If the trend is down you want to be out of the market or be short selling, depending on your risk tolerance. Anything that you buy or short sell should be trending the same direction as the market.
2. Never own an airline stock - some lunatic may blow one up or some battery may catch fire or some delivery date will be missed
3. Never short oil - some lunatic may blow up a pipeline.....
The last two are just personal comfort things. If you are an investor looking for long term capital appreciation pick up William J O'Neil's book, "How to Make Money in Stocks." If you are a trader looking for more frequent, and smaller profit trades pick up "Getting Started with Technical Analysis" by Jack Schwagger. Both cheap books and you'll smoke the returns of most fund mangers, CFAs and almost all MBAs.
Consider this though... investing is like going to a track day. If this is your first season of getting out and you are trying to lead the pack (quick buck), in all probability you are going to end up in the rhubarb. Those that have been training for years are the ones that will push you until you crash. (ie, take your money) Markets are the same. So, dont be greedy and dont try stupid ****!
Just my nickel (cause they took away my cents!)
How does #1 work with contrarian investing?
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