Interesting statistic

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ReSTored said:
Like I said in my original post "more info is needed" to assess what the dealer could have done or should have done or should have been expected to do.

If this was a regular customer who purchased the MG at the dealer and had used the service department for service more involved or complex than a routine oil and filter change then it might be a good customer relations exercise to reset the service reminder.

On the other hand, if the guy did all service himself, or had it done somewhere else, and the last time the dealer had seen him was when the bike was delivered new, then I think it's fair to decline to reset the bike. Dealer is not running a charity and the owner has demonstrated that he is not a customer of the service department.

I've had very minor issues with my car that my regular service provider has fixed no charge, but this is in the context of an ongoing relationship where they see the car on a regular basis throughout its life.
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IMHO, should a manufacturer not provide sufficient service information or instructions to perform basic maintenance on a vehicle, they should be required to provide basic services like service warning resets through their dealerships at no cost.

I'd never buy from a manufacturer who locks built-in features only for release thru a surcharge subscription charge. I also won't buy any vehicle where the manufacturer does not provide access to ECU diagnostics through standard tools.
 
Mad Mike said:
IMHO, should a manufacturer not provide sufficient service information or instructions to perform basic maintenance on a vehicle, they should be required to provide basic services like service warning resets through their dealerships at no cost.

I'd never buy from a manufacturer who locks built-in features only for release thru a surcharge subscription charge. I also won't buy any vehicle where the manufacturer does not provide access to ECU diagnostics through standard tools.
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Your last point is a gray area. Every car allows access via obdii to many things. Some brands have far more things accessible if you have the oem (or specialized aftermarket) equipment. I include the price of the appropriate scanner/software in my evaluation of the vehicle. It normally pays off having it. Hell, one I have now has been used on multiple cars and only depreciated a couple hundred dollars over 15 years or so.
 
timtune said:
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The problem is simple. MONEY

The manufacturers, John Deere in one case, needs more money to appease their shareholders. The farmer needs to recoup his farm costs (This isn't Little House on the Prairie) while fighting the price battle with mega buyers that use every ounce of clout they can to cut their cost so they can appease their shareholders.

The shareholders don't care about the farmer. If he goes belly up another one will try harder.

The same goes for high tech trucks and just about anything upgradeable.

Then a wrench gets thrown into the gearbox. IIRC part of the supply chain problem was a port that wouldn't allow older, less clean trucks to haul away cargo. There weren't enough clean breathing ones to do the job.

There's a multi directional tug of war going on over the money. Companies need investment dollars, investors need ROI, John Public needs money to buy the necessities of life. Some day one of the ropes is going to break and a lot of people will be falling on their assets.
 
nobbie48 said:
I'm assuming a bit of tongue in cheek but hopefully safety items never go to subscriptions. I can live without heated seats, GPS, satellite radio, electric side stand etc. Leave the brakes, steering lights etc alone.
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KTM is sort of doing it with the demo mode on the 890 Adventure. You get all the electronic aids such as traction control enabled for the first 1500 kms, then you have to pay to keep them or they get disabled.

 
nobbie48 said:
Hopefully there is a notification where the rider acknowledges the loss of the feature. It doesn't just shut down at 1500 Km mid turn.
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I never had an issue with KTM charging to activate advanced features, but enabling them temporarily and then disabling them after a certain mileage seems dangerous to me. I would have much preferred they allow the owners to purposely opt-in to ensure they understand the limitation. That would also give a new owner some time to get used the the "stock" bike and then compare before and after to see if the difference is noticeable enough to be of value.
 
Relax said:
I never had an issue with KTM charging to activate advanced features, but enabling them temporarily and then disabling them after a certain mileage seems dangerous to me. I would have much preferred they allow the owners to purposely opt-in to ensure they understand the limitation. That would also give a new owner some time to get used the the "stock" bike and then compare before and after to see if the difference is noticeable enough to be of value.
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I'm thinking in the line of the bike is operating with the temporary features at 1475 KM and it continues to operate past 1500 Km until the bike gets shut down. Then the bike won't restart until the rider acknowledges the features have been discontinued.
 
I can see that ending badly for KTM.

Rider gets used to all the electronic aids, like cornering traction control.

Bike turns all these aids off at 1500 kms, which for most people is about 3 months of riding.

The first time the rider goes out without the electronics, he thwacks the throttle WFO in the middle of the turn - just like he's always done for the past 3 months.

Cue the lawyers...
 
Lightcycle said:
I can see that ending badly for KTM.

Rider gets used to all the electronic aids, like cornering traction control.

Bike turns all these aids off at 1500 kms, which for most people is about 3 months of riding.

The first time the rider goes out without the electronics, he thwacks the throttle WFO in the middle of the turn - just like he's always done for the past 3 months.

Cue the lawyers...
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Pretty sure it isn't traction control or abs just all the other stuff like quick shift etc.

Sent from the future
 
Scuba Steve said:
Pretty sure it isn't traction control or abs just all the other stuff like quick shift etc.
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It was difficult to find out which options are in the demo mode, but this is what I scrounged up:

The new 890 Adventure R offers multiple ride modes, including an optional Rally mode, traction control and slide control, a quickshifter for both up and downshifts, and cruise control, among other features. KTM touts demo mode as a chance to try the optional features and decide which ones you want and which ones you don't want, instead of having to make those decisions in a dealer showroom before you've had any time riding the motorcycle.
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Also, I don't have enough faith in people to think that offering, and then taking away inconsequential sh!t like cruise control and quick shifter won't result in someone getting themselves injured somehow.
 
Lightcycle said:
It was difficult to find out which options are in the demo mode, but this is what I scrounged up:



Also, I don't have enough faith in people to think that offering, and then taking away inconsequential sh!t like cruise control and quick shifter won't result in someone getting themselves injured somehow.
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I'm of several minds on this.

The cheap, older, burgeoning curmudgeon in me says, "I don't need a new bike so I don't care AND if they're building the capability into the bike the feature should be included in the purchase price." I'll NEVER buy a vehicle where stuff like that is a built-in extra."

The yearly off-season bike shopper me says, "Thppt...I don't want/need any of that crap so screw the extras. Having said that I like the ABS, traction control the 4 ride modes on my KTM 1090R so that's enough for me."

The financially cautious, older me that recognizes that I'm (fortunately) still getting older, and can choose to adapt to new stuff says, "I'm only going to live once, I've made plenty of sacrifices and tough decisions both good and bad over the course of my life, and I can afford it........So giddy up!!! Gimme all the extra crap!!!"
 
xrljoel said:
I'm of several minds on this.

The cheap, older, burgeoning curmudgeon in me says, "I don't need a new bike so I don't care AND if they're building the capability into the bike the feature should be included in the purchase price." I'll NEVER buy a vehicle where stuff like that is a built-in extra."

The yearly off-season bike shopper me says, "Thppt...I don't want/need any of that crap so screw the extras. Having said that I like the ABS, traction control the 4 ride modes on my KTM 1090R so that's enough for me."

The financially cautious, older me that recognizes that I'm (fortunately) still getting older, and can choose to adapt to new stuff says, "I'm only going to live once, I've made plenty of sacrifices and tough decisions both good and bad over the course of my life, and I can afford it........So giddy up!!! Gimme all the extra crap!!!"
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Yeah, I get that.

The bike I mainly ride has none of the 'tronix: no ABS, no TC, no cruise, no quickshifter. Nada. Nothing.

I don't really miss it when I'm riding, and I like having total control of how the motorcycle responds.

BUT... stick me on my other bike with Electronic Suspension Adjustment, and I'm happy that it automatically sets the pre-load when I'm carrying a passenger or luggage, so I don't have to crank on some antiquated dial underneath the seat or have to break out the chisel and hammer to bang out a collar on the rear shock. Also happy that when I get off the tarmac and onto dirt, I can hit a button and have the suspension adjust to soak up the bumps and ruts.

Still don't need or use the Hill Start, Quick Shifter, Cruise Control, TC or ABS.

Something for everyone, I guess.
 
Lightcycle said:
Yeah, I get that.

The bike I mainly ride has none of the 'tronix: no ABS, no TC, no cruise, no quickshifter. Nada. Nothing.

I don't really miss it when I'm riding, and I like having total control of how the motorcycle responds.

BUT... stick me on my other bike with Electronic Suspension Adjustment, and I'm happy that it automatically sets the pre-load when I'm carrying a passenger or luggage, so I don't have to crank on some antiquated dial underneath the seat or have to break out the chisel and hammer to bang out a collar on the rear shock. Also happy that when I get off the tarmac and onto dirt, I can hit a button and have the suspension adjust to soak up the bumps and ruts.

Still don't need or use the Hill Start, Quick Shifter, Cruise Control, TC or ABS.

Something for everyone, I guess.
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100%.

I'm with you.

I have to say that I too didn't necessarily appreciate or care about TC until I took my 1090 on a 40-50 km ride on a gravel/dirt access road off hwy. 17 into Algonquin Park. I was able to drift ever so gently through the corners at a good clip with just enough wheel slip (front and rear) to enhance the fun factor. I also like playing with the ABS on occasion.

But during most of my riding time none of the stuff activates. I have tried the different ride modes but only really notice any difference when it's in Rain mode with the reduction in acceleration. At least it also gets better mileage in rain mode.
 
xrljoel said:
But during most of my riding time none of the stuff activates. I have tried the different ride modes but only really notice any difference when it's in Rain mode with the reduction in acceleration. At least it also gets better mileage in rain mode.
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The BMW ESA really does transform the bike.

Was doing the Enduropark course in Germany with their R1200GSes. During lunch, we rode the bike from the park to the local restaurant in town. The instructors reminded us to switch from off-road to on-road mode.

When we returned from lunch, I started doing drills and almost crashed the bike, it was bouncing like a rubber ball off the rocks because the suspension was stiff as a rock. Forgot to set it back to off-road.

Conversely, I really do feel like the bike is planted in the corners on asphalt in sport mode vs wallowing like a Buick if I leave it off-road mode.
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