Insta360

[Relax]

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Both have their pros and cons.

The action cams are vibration proof and resistant to damage from jolts and falls. Plenty of warnings from Apple about mounting iPhones without dampers, lest they destroy the motors and stabilizers inside the iPhone camera.

Speaking of which, the iPhone is better for adjusting focal length because of these delicate parts, so you get better depth of field, whereas the fixed, smaller aperture on an action camera is designed to keep everything in focus, which is better for speed and movement.

Action cameras tend to be smaller and have dedicated mounts for chin, chest, helmets, at the end of long sticks, etc. Whereas the handheld form factor on a smartphone makes it a bit awkward to mount on different surfaces.

Some of the action cameras also have dual lenses which allow for 360 capture and editing, so you can follow specific objects while in motion and do so in the editing room well after the fact. With a smartphone, if your subject escapes your camera's FOV, it's gone and irrecoverable. These 360 cameras tend to be better for... action.

Personally, I have lots of important information on my phone that I don't want lost if it's hanging out in the wind on my dirtbike...

Did I mention I crash A LOT?

Ah, never had a problem with my iPhone camera mounted with a regular RAM X-Grip mount, but then never actually had the camera on. Will have to consider that as a risk. As much as I like the idea of the 360 cams, as mentioned, I don't think I want to invest that much time post-processing the footage.

Regardless if you use your phone for video or not, most if not all of your data should be able to be cloud-backed (public or private if you have privacy concerns) so that in the event of a lost/stolen/broken phone, all you've lost is the hardware.

 

[Lightcycle]

Ah, never had a problem with my iPhone camera mounted with a regular RAM X-Grip mount, but then never actually had the camera on. Will have to consider that as a risk. As much as I like the idea of the 360 cams, as mentioned, I don't think I want to invest that much time post-processing the footage.

Regardless if you use your phone for video or not, most if not all of your data should be able to be cloud-backed (public or private if you have privacy concerns) so that in the event of a lost/stolen/broken phone, all you've lost is the hardware.

We're out in the bush a lot. A phone failure could mean not being able to call for help and suffering extreme exposure.

 

[PrivatePilot]

We're out in the bush a lot. A phone failure could mean not being able to call for help and suffering extreme exposure.

Wouldn't a satellite emergency beacon like a Zoleo or Spot be a better choice then?

FWIW the Ram X-Mount comes with a rubber thing that you're supposed to stretch over the edges of the phone when it's in the mount that would make it all but impossible for the phone to come out in pretty much any sort of situation that didn't result in total destruction of the bike.

Most people usually take them off (as I did) and so you rarely see them, but for off road use they'd absolutely hold the phone in in basically almost anything.

 

[Lightcycle]

Wouldn't a satellite emergency beacon like a Zoleo or Spot be a better choice then?

Have one as well.

I just don't want to put my phone on the bars when I'm dirt biking.

It's just a personal choice. If others are comfortable with it, then awesome!

 

[Relax]

We're out in the bush a lot. A phone failure could mean not being able to call for help and suffering extreme exposure.

I wasn't trying to convince you to use your phone as a cam. I was just on a tangent about your data if it's not backed up somewhere else. I'm saying this as I had a recent surprise where 8 TB of my data suddenly when offline. It wasn't critical data, so I didn't have it backed up, but it sure would have been been a pain to re-download everything, never mind the screaming (not really) friends who rely on my Plex server...

 

[Fuzzbuster]

I have done some research and think if I can find one used for a reasonable price that is the way to go. I honestly thought there would be better boxing day deals but it doesn't seem like it. The x4 insta is very similar to the x3 but has the option of running it on a loop like a dashcam. My main goal with having a camera is for video in the event it is needed (accident or emergency) or if something really exciting happens on a ride. Not looking to blog or vlog or log for that matter! Another neat camera (not 360) is the DJI Osmo action 5 which seems to be a better option than GoPro and the previous DJI action 4. The action 5 has excellent battery, the ability to use 2 external mics and internal storage in addition to the micro SD. From what I have seen the mics make for some interesting sound when added to the video (exhaust sound can be paired with verbal audio). The thing that I really like about the 360 camera is that you are covered in every direction. In an emergency if you have a fixed camera you will miss most of the footage or possibly all of the footage. I have had several different incidents recently in my vehicle with people who seemed to be mentally unstable. In one case a guy went completely berserk because he thought I did not pull out quick enough. For insurance reasons, traffic cameras, nutbars etc I think it is vital to have video footage.

 

[Lightcycle]

I wasn't trying to convince you to use your phone as a cam. I was just on a tangent about your data if it's not backed up somewhere else. I'm saying this as I had a recent surprise where 8 TB of my data suddenly when offline. It wasn't critical data, so I didn't have it backed up, but it sure would have been been a pain to re-download everything, never mind the screaming (not really) friends who rely on my Plex server...

Yep.

It's not the data. I buy enough replacement parts for my bike when I crash.

I just don't want to buy a new phone.

Kinda cheap that way.

 

[Aens]

This may be a dumb question, but I use my iPhone as a GPS, so it's already mounted on my bars with a view of the road. I haven't tried, but I suppose it could record a ride if I wanted to. What are the additional benefits of a dedicated action cam? Is it mainly the longer recording time because of the removable media?

It depends on if it is optical image stabilization or digital image stabilization. Most phones use a combination of OIS and DIS these days.

In the original smart phone days, DIS was literally just shooting at full megapixels and then cropping the picture based on the stationary pixels. The cost was in frame rate and image quality.

Then, with better packaging of the other smartphone components, that allowed for thicker camera modules to be included. So now you could include both optical zoom and also move the sensor/lens according to what the phone gyroscope is seeing. This is what breaks when it comes to the high frequency micro vibrations. Basically the joints are not meant to be shaken like that as they were designed to be held in your hand and the human body is a fantastic vibration damper. The 'whiplash' from when the delicate mechanical components are trying to move while experiencing gforces acting against the tiny parts is what breaks. To put it in motorcycle terms, its like dropping the clutch while rolling backwards at significant speeds. You can still use the phone to record, but you'll get zero OIS effect, aka perma-shaky cam.

Most phones these days are a combination of both OIS and DIS. With the abundance of megapixels, generous focal lengths and huge mobile computing power, its how you can almost get away with filming with a video with a phone instead of a dedicated video camera in the professional space.

Action cameras are DIS only and have more software to account for some of the more 'extreme' use cases. Older action cameras cropped way too much however and you ended up with some really strange resolutions or visible image quality loss from interpolation.

360 Cameras dont even need OIS because when you shoot 360 (going to gloss over the hemispherical stitching problem), you can always fix a shaky camera digitally as all the information is there 'in frame'.

There's a more practical consideration though. Try to mount a phone with the viewing angle you want on your bars for filming. It'll be the most awkward GPS experience ever.

 

[adri]

A few months ago I sold my One R Twin set for $300 (far less than half of what I spent on it), and bought a used Insta360 X3 for $280. The used X3 was a minor step up. It's totally good enough for social media but I do 4K video on YouTube and on anything that wasn't sunny and clear the footage was just so-so.

I sold the used X3 for $300 within a month, and bought a used X4 for $400.

Now with the X4 it really does feel like I have come up a full step in quality from my original One R. I haven't played with it too much yet, but I'm cool with what I'm getting for the $400 I paid, but had I paid the $660+ after taxes, I think I would be disappointed.

The reality with these cameras is that what you see on youtube isn't what you get right out of the camera. A lot of those guys are either customizing all of their shooting settings like you would a DSLR camera, adjusting shutter speed, ISO, frame rate, exposure, etc. or they're shooting in log and then color grading everything afterwards.

TLDR: If you really, reaaaallly need to buy new, just make sure you don't buy from Insta directly. I would get a used X3 for $300 if you just want some shots for social media, or a used X4 for $400 if you want to do some 4k footage stuff.

I was just doing some year end accounting and realized I got most of my numbers wrong! Sorry guys.

One R Twin Set - Sold for $300 (only thing I got right)

Insta360 X3 - Bought for $380 (not $280)
Insta360 X3 - Sold for $380 (not $300)

Insta360 X4 - Bought for $500 (not $400)

I also bought an Insta360 Ace Pro for $325 as I'm thinking about leaving GoPro. I still think GoPro is the best in perfect conditions, but things fall apart when it gets dark, or when you want to bring in wireless microphones. The competition from Insta and from DJI have really started to target GoPros weaknesses and GoPro seems to have no response...

Here's a 3 minute video by a total stranger who isn't me, taken today in Toronto around 5:15 pm, on an Insta360 that totally isn't mine.

By halfway through the video it's after 5:45 and you can tell the sky has gone pretty much fully dark except for when traveling westbound.
You can see that the Insta360 Ace Pro does remarkably well in this lighting (my GoPro would have been 80% blackness), because it uses AI. When houses keep their lights off, it's pretty dark, but as soon as we see some houses with the porch lights on, the Ace Pro does pretty well for such a small sensor in low light.

 

[Fuzzbuster]

I was just doing some year end accounting and realized I got most of my numbers wrong! Sorry guys.

One R Twin Set - Sold for $300 (only thing I got right)

Insta360 X3 - Bought for $380 (not $280)
Insta360 X3 - Sold for $380 (not $300)

Insta360 X4 - Bought for $500 (not $400)

I also bought an Insta360 Ace Pro for $325 as I'm thinking about leaving GoPro. I still think GoPro is the best in perfect conditions, but things fall apart when it gets dark, or when you want to bring in wireless microphones. The competition from Insta and from DJI have really started to target GoPros weaknesses and GoPro seems to have no response...

Here's a 3 minute video by a total stranger who isn't me, taken today in Toronto around 5:15 pm, on an Insta360 that totally isn't mine.

By halfway through the video it's after 5:45 and you can tell the sky has gone pretty much fully dark except for when traveling westbound.
You can see that the Insta360 Ace Pro does remarkably well in this lighting (my GoPro would have been 80% blackness), because it uses AI. When houses keep their lights off, it's pretty dark, but as soon as we see some houses with the porch lights on, the Ace Pro does pretty well for such a small sensor in low light.

I was actually going to ask you how you found such good deals. I have been looking and best I found was x4 for $450 which was really good deal and I should have grabbed it but hesitated and it got sold!

 

[adri]

I was actually going to ask you how you found such good deals. I have been looking and best I found was x4 for $450 which was really good deal and I should have grabbed it but hesitated and it got sold!

My bad info probably contributed to your hesitation too, sorry! That's why I wanted to go back and update the thread instead of just thinking "oops" and not mentioning it.

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