I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .

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Noticed Corey you only replied to my malpractice part of my posts. You don't seem to dispute what I said in prior two post which fall directly with which the topic was about. Roger
 
You are correct that it would need to be a serious case. That does not mean that the coverage is not needed. If you get into an accident you have no control over the severity of the damage or who you hit(young person or old). Insurance companies have seen claims that exceed the $1million dollar threshold this is why the "offer" $2mill liability. But as I am sure you are aware the Third party liability and bodily injurying portion of your policy is most likely the least expensive portion of your premiums. The large cost of insurance is from the Accident Benefit portion of the policy. AB payouts are becoming more frequent and higher in cost.
 
Will call you for quote on my trike. 62 years young, not old, 35 yrs plus accident free, no tickets of any kind, 2 trike safety course through the state of Florida for motorcyclist, acepted by my present insurer for discount, six star rating from them which they say they do not give to everyone, 2000 Goldwing SE 1500 cc with Canadian Federal Government approved Lehman trike kit, Bike liscenced since 16 years of age. Living in Penetanguishene Ont. Been professional truck driver all my life with many safety driving plaques and awards. Roger
 
P.S. At present there are no trike safety course available in the province of Ontario by any of the colleges who give out bike courses. Know many of the instructors which teach and they tell me I know more about trikes than they do cause they have never owned or driven one. Roger
 
Just my 2 cents worth and I was allowed to sign a waver stating I would not drive my wifes car (due to a charge against me) If it can be done for cars it should be acceptable for bikes too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hello. I'm a new rider, going for my M2. I asked a broker what the rates would be once I get my M2 for just liability, and they quoted me 5,734/year. Any advice on where I might get cheaper? It's on a 1999 Gs500E.
 
insurance companies justify charging high rates for what they do by any means because they can.
unless you have access to a high priced lobbyist it will never change.
$$$$ makes the world go round.

A fair system would cover the rider/driver who could then operate what ever vehicle they want that they are licenced for.
Companies could charge additional fee for expensive vehicles or special requests
They always say it is the coverage of the person that costs the most not the vehicle.

But they won t because they won t make as much profit

We will never get a fair deal because it is all about the $$$$$$

They have the power and the government in their back pocket
 
gcrouse said:
Question. Why can't we cancel our insurance without penelty during the winter months?
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this move by ins. co's. effectively DOUBLED insurance costs in Ontario!

Sick! Figure it out PER RIDE! what its costin you! better off to rent a bike for the few times we get to ride here in Ontario! In California friends ins. thier bikes year long for 200.00 and they can actually USE their bikes year round! Here, we get 6 months. Out of that, many times we have to take the car etc. work it out per klm! Absolutely retarded. I have a vintage bug, same value as my bike. Cost 150/year to insure. Sure its based on low milage but as noted, the bike doesn't get that much use either.
 
Why can't we change the insurance system such that automobile insurance (and all related costs for automobile insurance) ONLY covers you for the costs related to your vehicle and the accident or claim at hand - not any of the health and injury costs?

ie. Your vehicle insurance policy should only cover all the costs related to the liability damages, property damages to your vehicle and any/all vehicles involved in the crash, theft, fire, etc. whatever options you choose (as it is today), however;

If you want health insurance and/or life insurance, you get that as a separate item. Your life insurance premium will depend on MANY factors like your age, hobbies, location, whether or not you smoke or drink, etc. etc. and you can get as much coverage as you need?! If you don't have a car, then you shouldn't have "driving" included in your regular health insurance (but you'll probably have to buy it when you rent a car)

The whole thing seems redundant; health coverage from the province of Ontario, work benefits, spouse's work benefits AND a (mandatory) life insurance plan if you have a mortgage WTH
 
So I was with State Farm for the last 13 years or so. I ride a Ducati 848 and have perfect record. State Farm was recently acquired by Desjardins. My renewal for the year was up by around 280 percent. I was told that Desjardins has never insured my type of bike but they were forced to insure me because of the acquisition. I was literally told, by the insurance company, that they intentionally made the rate prohibitively high so that I would choose to cancel my policy.

The rates are based on the needs and wants of the business and not on the actual statistics. I'm sure there's some truth to the numbers you send in to FSCO but I think we both know it's a shell game that's in serious need of reform.

Who's kidding who here...
 
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Kri$han said:
Why can't we change the insurance system such that automobile insurance (and all related costs for automobile insurance) ONLY covers you for the costs related to your vehicle and the accident or claim at hand - not any of the health and injury costs?

ie. Your vehicle insurance policy should only cover all the costs related to the liability damages, property damages to your vehicle and any/all vehicles involved in the crash, theft, fire, etc. whatever options you choose (as it is today), however;

If you want health insurance and/or life insurance, you get that as a separate item. Your life insurance premium will depend on MANY factors like your age, hobbies, location, whether or not you smoke or drink, etc. etc. and you can get as much coverage as you need?! If you don't have a car, then you shouldn't have "driving" included in your regular health insurance (but you'll probably have to buy it when you rent a car)

The whole thing seems redundant; health coverage from the province of Ontario, work benefits, spouse's work benefits AND a (mandatory) life insurance plan if you have a mortgage WTH
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^ this please insurance companies / Gov of Ontario.... $2k of my policy is accident benefits, $600 is the remainder..... >:|
 
Is it worth joining one of the motorcycle associations like Canadian Motorcycle Association, CMG, Cycle City Riders club, etc. to get the insurance discount?
 
VifferFun said:
Hey Guys,

I just thought it was interesting how people are bashing the insurance companies for jacking up rates, and I can certainly sympathize since I am a rider too!

I am an Actuarial Analyst in the Pricing Department of a major Canadian insurer, and my job is to help set the overall rates within the company (i.e. rate increases or rate decreases). I'm sure people are wondering how they are getting some ridiculous quotes from some insurance companies, so allow me to explain in very basic Layman's terms the pricing methodology used within the insurance industry.

First, we look at historical claims data from the past 10 years or so, and determine trends to try and predict the claims experience for the upcoming year. I can assure you that the average cost per claim is increasing year over year at an exponential rate, not only for Motorcycles but cars as well.

Next, we determine the necessary rate increase/decrease such that the following equation holds true:

PREMIUMS = CLAIMS (~65%) + EXPENSES (~30%) + PROFIT (~5%)

It is a common misconception that Insurance Companies reap HUGE profits, which is simply not true. The overall profit of a company is usually within the range of -10% to 10%, depending on the performance of the specific insurance company's book of business. In fact, the government completely oversees the ratemaking process such that we are not even allowed to increase rates unless we ask for permission with supporting statistics.

So far I have only briefly described the process of determining rate increases/decreases, but thorough analysis is also performed to determine which classes of drivers should pay more/less premium. The experience of different groups distinguished by different variables (such as Age, Gender, Marital Status, Bike Class, Bike Displacement, etc.) are closely analyzed. Historical data would show that a 17-year-old rider with two convictions and an M2 riding a Gixxer is statistically MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely to get in an accident and cause damage than a 53-year-old driver with a clean record and full M riding a Goldwing. It doesn't take a background in Statistics to understand this.

So, why are the rates going up? The reason is the increasing cost of claims. Yeah, it certainly sucks, but no company in their right mind would charge you $500/yr to insure a bike with expected losses $1200/yr.

I frequently hear people complain by saying that the cost of a few years of insurance is equal to the cost of their bike. I can understand that this would upset you, but you need to ask yourself what the insurance is really covering. Only a small portion of the premium covers the motorcycle itself. The majority of the premium goes towards paying out claims where injuries are involved, which can easily run upwards of $2,000,000.



So, what can you do to lower you insurance premium? Here are a few suggestions:

1.) If you aren't an experienced rider, DON'T BUY A SUPERSPORT. Even if insurance were completely free, I still wouldn't suggest that a new rider purchase a sport bike. Buy a nice starter bike like a Ninja 250, Ninja 500, GS500, etc. instead, which is much easier on the wallet as far as insurance is concerned. Most companies surcharge sport bikes because of their nasty claims experience. Some companies even refuse to write them (aka blacklists).

2.) Be responsible. Don't do stupid things that would cause you to get tickets or accidents, since these will drastically increase your premiums.

3.) If your bike isn't worth that much and it wouldn't kill you financially if you had to write it off, opt out of Collision coverage. As long as the accident is not your fault and the other driver doesn't flee the scene, your bike will be repaired by insurance even if you don't have Collision (this is commonly misunderstood). Property Damage (a mandatory coverage with $0 deductible) covers your bike in accidents that ARE NOT your fault, and Collision covers your bike in accidents that ARE your fault. Just be sure that you don't cause any accidents!

4.) Shop around! Every company has its own niche market that it is targeting, and you may not fall within that specification. Some companies really do not want to write motorcycle insurance, but they offer it just so that they do not lose their existing Auto/Home policies. Some companies will offer bike insurance, but at a high rate to deter people. Don't get ****** off, but simply take your business elsewhere to a company that actually targets riders such as yourself.

5.) Bundle other insurance products to get a multi-line discount. Some companies will not write a standalone motorcycle unless you have a car or house with them as well. As much as you may not like this, it is completely the insurance company's decision and there is nothing illegal about it.

6.) Take a certified motorcycle training course if you are a new rider.

7.) Increase your Collision or Comprehensive deductibles.



Some things that are not really in your control that can affect your insurance premium, depending on your company:

1.) Gender: Some companies rate females cheaper when under 25yo

2.) Age: Your rates generally decrease at either age 25 or 30

3.) Location: Rural Areas may pay lower premiums than Metro Toronto

4.) Marital Status: Married people may pay lower premium than single people




That's about all I can think of right now. If you are going to respond, please keep civil; I'm a fellow rider and I'm not an evil person. I'm trying to educate everyone here about insurance, and I welcome any questions that you might have.

Cheers!
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how much would insurance be on a kawasaki H2 for a 15 year old M rider?
 
this was a huge tax grab and the Gov got away with it
transfer the cost of health coverage from OHIP - that we pay for
to a private health coverage policy that you have to purchase

and this opened up the industry to the huge fraud problem that caused rates to skyrocket

there should have been riots over this

Kri$han said:
Why can't we change the insurance system such that automobile insurance (and all related costs for automobile insurance) ONLY covers you for the costs related to your vehicle and the accident or claim at hand - not any of the health and injury costs?

ie. Your vehicle insurance policy should only cover all the costs related to the liability damages, property damages to your vehicle and any/all vehicles involved in the crash, theft, fire, etc. whatever options you choose (as it is today), however;

If you want health insurance and/or life insurance, you get that as a separate item. Your life insurance premium will depend on MANY factors like your age, hobbies, location, whether or not you smoke or drink, etc. etc. and you can get as much coverage as you need?! If you don't have a car, then you shouldn't have "driving" included in your regular health insurance (but you'll probably have to buy it when you rent a car)

The whole thing seems redundant; health coverage from the province of Ontario, work benefits, spouse's work benefits AND a (mandatory) life insurance plan if you have a mortgage WTH
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JavaFan said:
this was a huge tax grab and the Gov got away with it
transfer the cost of health coverage from OHIP - that we pay for
to a private health coverage policy that you have to purchase

and this opened up the industry to the huge fraud problem that caused rates to skyrocket

there should have been riots over this
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I didn’t suggest we get rid of OHIP?

And I’m not sure I understand how it results in paying more taxes...? I’m saying we should itemize and customize insurance policies for every person. The insurance industry wouldn’t even lose any jobs; they’d need tons of adjusters! Imagine the paperwork!?

It’ll help prevent fraud, keep rates fair and reduce redundant coverage, which we’re currently paying for! Paying more means paying more taxes...
 
the insurance rates in ontario are very high, and any money the insurance company loses in bad investments is considered an "expense", - as are capital gains (wtf ?). They gamble on the stock market with your insurance premiums...and when they lose we pay.

This thread sounds like the premier of ontario explaining why our hydro rates are double that of, say manitoba.

pffft. stuffed suits and legal cons...



Poor old state farm is starving....https://newsroom.statefarm.com/state-farm-2016-financial-results/#JzkQzz33Hx5Em65u.97
 
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This thread is 19 pages long and I don't have the time to leaf through them all looking for an answer to this, so I'll ask here:

Multiple-bikes in a single-rider household

I hate that the premium I pay for each bike seems to assume that this is the only bike ridden. To use an example, suppose I have a BMW fetish and bought 2 identical S1000RRs, one in red and one in blue. I would presumably be paying the insurance company $2000/yr (e.g.) for each bike even though only one would only ever be used at any given time.

I feel like the owner should be charged a premium for things like liability and SABs and UM etc once -- reflecting the fact that when he's out there and being a risk and being at risk, he's on one bike while the other snoozes under a cover in the garage -- while the comprehensive coverage for each bike remain as is.

Perhaps that single, umbrella premium, is set to be the highest of the bikes in the stable so that you're covered in every possible risk scenario. So a guy with an S1000RR and a DRZ400 pays an umbrella premium equal to the riskiest bike -- the S1000, in this case -- only. So, say, $1500 for the liability, SABs etc on the S1000RR instead of $1500 for the S1000RR and another $600 for the DRZ; other line items on the policy cover comprehensive for each bike singly.

This way things are currently done feels like "double dipping" by insurance companies. Surely this can be changed?
 
Blackfin said:
This thread is 19 pages long and I don't have the time to leaf through them all looking for an answer to this, so I'll ask here:

Multiple-bikes in a single-rider household

I hate that the premium I pay for each bike seems to assume that this is the only bike ridden. To use an example, suppose I have a BMW fetish and bought 2 identical S1000RRs, one in red and one in blue. I would presumably be paying the insurance company $2000/yr (e.g.) for each bike even though only one would only ever be used at any given time.

I feel like the owner should be charged a premium for things like liability and SABs and UM etc once -- reflecting the fact that when he's out there and being a risk and being at risk, he's on one bike while the other snoozes under a cover in the garage -- while the comprehensive coverage for each bike remain as is.

Perhaps that single, umbrella premium, is set to be the highest of the bikes in the stable so that you're covered in every possible risk scenario. So a guy with an S1000RR and a DRZ400 pays an umbrella premium equal to the riskiest bike -- the S1000, in this case -- only. So, say, $1500 for the liability, SABs etc on the S1000RR instead of $1500 for the S1000RR and another $600 for the DRZ; other line items on the policy cover comprehensive for each bike singly.

This way things are currently done feels like "double dipping" by insurance companies. Surely this can be changed?
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It probably can change, but why would they change it, the way it is now they get more money, and that is their goal.......
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