I help set rates for a Major Canadian Insurance Company! Some thoughts . . .

So you get sued for $1 million and they are going to recover it by garnishing wages? Gimme a break.

The point is that I drive responsibly (hence a spotless record with 0 claims - ever), yet I am penalized by being forced to get expensive insurance that I personally don't want. The fact is that those of us that drive responsibly end up paying for those that don't - particularly those that desire to drive fast motorcycles and have good records are greatly penalized by those that have owned such motorcycles and have driven like idiots. It should be opposite. Excellent drivers should pay almost nothing. Those with bad driving records should pay for 95% of any insurance claims ever made.

I tell you... I felt a lot 'freer' when I lived overseas where I was free to not buy insurance, free to not wear a helmet, and free to pay for my own damage to vehicle or to myself if I was stupid enough to get into trouble.

This whole business of insurance and suing each other has gotten way out of hand here.
 
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So you get sued for $1 million and they are going to recover it by garnishing wages? Gimme a break.

The point is that I drive responsibly (hence a spotless record with 0 claims - ever), yet I am penalized by being forced to get expensive insurance that I personally don't want. The fact is that those of us that drive responsibly end up paying for those that don't - particularly those that desire to drive fast motorcycles and have good records are greatly penalized by those that have owned such motorcycles and have driven like idiots. It should be opposite. Excellent drivers should pay almost nothing. Those with bad driving records should pay for 95% of any insurance claims ever made.

I tell you... I felt a lot 'freer' when I lived overseas where I was free to not buy insurance, free to not wear a helmet, and free to pay for my own damage to vehicle or to myself if I was stupid enough to get into trouble.

This whole business of insurance and suing each other has gotten way out of hand here.


You know, you could at least have the common courtesy to read the thread before posting nonsense. Sheesh. What is it with some people??? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
 
I tell you... I felt a lot 'freer' when I lived overseas where I was free to not buy insurance, free to not wear a helmet, and free to pay for my own damage to vehicle or to myself if I was stupid enough to get into trouble.

This whole business of insurance and suing each other has gotten way out of hand here.

so move back to your 'free' land.

lawsuits are very heavily regulated here in canada.

generally places that have cheap/no ins. req's have lax rules on civil suits.

you really have no idea how the industry works do you?
 
I read the first few pages.... couldn't be bothered to read all of it.

I plan to move back to places that offer more freedom one day, but not until I amassed enough money into CPP, my company's pension plan, and my own savings so that I can afford to live there without working.

So I take it that you are okay that we are gouged here while just across the border in Michigan you would be paying a fraction of the amount that you are in insurance? I guess it is the Canadian way just to put up and shut up... and just take being ripped off.
 
So I take it that you are okay that we are gouged here while just across the border in Michigan you would be paying a fraction of the amount that you are in insurance? I guess it is the Canadian way just to put up and shut up... and just take being ripped off.

I'm speechless..you're lazy AND stupid. Sigh..
 
i know firsthand the way insurance is meant to work. trust me. its not a complete ripoff


across the border in michigan the legal and insurance industries work ALOT differently. now shut up or go to a thread where you have a clue as to what is going on.
 
I read the first few pages.... couldn't be bothered to read all of it.

Before making such outlandish remarks, you should read the previous pages of the thread. If you "can't be bothered" to inform yourself, then please don't try to act as if you actually know something about the Insurance Industry.

If, however, you disagree with something I have written and can write an intelligible counter-argument, I would be more than happy to further explain the issue.

Cheers!
 
OK here's one I don't understand. I get a multiple vehicle discount with my company, but havent switched my car to them. Too much paperwork for the few months I plan to keep it. I called yesterday to get a quote on the truck I'll be driving through the winter and a new price on the bike with the multivehicle discount.

So I got my rates, which included a healthy reduction on my bike insurance costs. But then I was told it would'nt apply until renewal because the bike has been insured for more than three months! WTF. This makes no sense to me and actually has me a little mad.
 
OK here's one I don't understand. I get a multiple vehicle discount with my company, but havent switched my car to them. Too much paperwork for the few months I plan to keep it. I called yesterday to get a quote on the truck I'll be driving through the winter and a new price on the bike with the multivehicle discount.

So I got my rates, which included a healthy reduction on my bike insurance costs. But then I was told it would'nt apply until renewal because the bike has been insured for more than three months! WTF. This makes no sense to me and actually has me a little mad.

Well, first off, it sounds like the company did you a favour for applying the multi-vehicle discount to your bike, even though they did not yet write your truck. Judging by your "three month" comment, I am guessing you are with State Farm. The State Farm agent was only supposed to apply a Multi-Vehicle discount on your bike if they were going to write your truck within three months of writing the bike, but it sounds like they did not write your truck until after three months. Even still, I don't see why you wouldn't get the MVD on your truck, seeing as your bike is still with them. I would call your agent and ask for further clarification; it shouldn't be a *bad* thing that your bike has already been insured for three months as opposed to three weeks.

Cheers!
 
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well, I havent got the truck yet, so i was simply getting quoted. The discount is not as much as it would be if I were to have two cars/trucks, but it is quite nice.

I dont understand, as they will in the end be receiving more money than if i had signed them both up at once, its not like im asking for a refund on the three months I have already paid...
 
well, I havent got the truck yet, so i was simply getting quoted. The discount is not as much as it would be if I were to have two cars/trucks, but it is quite nice.

I dont understand, as they will in the end be receiving more money than if i had signed them both up at once, its not like im asking for a refund on the three months I have already paid...

Again, I think you should call your agent and ask for further clarification. They did you a favour by applying the MVD to the bike prior to writing the truck, but I don't see any reason why the truck should not get the MVD as soon as you write it. Let me know what your agent says if you are still dissatisfied. Please send me a PM, since this is somewhat off the topic of this thread.

Cheers!
 
they havent given the MVD yet, nor would I expect them too. I was simply given the price of the truck, and the price the bike would drop too with the MVD. I'll be calling to day, thats for sure.

All they have done here is ensure that I shop around fro rates as opposed to them being my 100% choice as I thought they would be.
 
First of all thanks to viffer for posting all this information and being so patient with not only very foolish replies but also to those who are making honest inquiries or who were looking for clarification on on their perhaps slightly un-accurate points of view.

So how much do Insurance Companies spend on claim fraud prevention, detection and education? Instead of just writing off, and paying out, why don't they investigate a little more, and maybe say 'NO!' to some the ridiculous claims that come in.. Then the rest of us, honest premium paying clients, wouldn't have such a huge price to pay.
You can thank the government for this one. It was the government that has implimented rules that allow for high levels of fraud. For example, having to begin AB payments within a few weeks of a claim. They thought that it would be unfair to make someone wait but it has allowed for many false claims.

Insurance companies do spend a lot of money on Private Investigators to do surveillance on suspected cases of abuse (ie, person claims that he can't work anymore but was observed re-roofing his house).

[double quote here]
...put a cap on some of the more minor injuries (soft tissue) which are milking the system ALL of the time.[/QUOTE]

Quote: blatant lie. thats an excuse for the ins. co to incrfease rates. ins. fraud. the adjusters should do a better investigation.
An ins co wastes so much money trying to stop a person from gettting what they deserve.
How about all the people who are getting money that they DON'T deserve? "oh woe is me...I got rear-ended at 7km/hr and now I can't work or get an erection and fulfill my husbandly duties as a man with my wife...I think I should get $70k a year!" (even though he only made $35k to start with).

I read the first few pages.... couldn't be bothered to read all of it.
Please don't provide ignorant opinions. If you want to offer and opinion at least make it an educated one. It's not Viffer's JOB to educate you...he offered too. If someone wants to argue his position, they should at least take the time to do some research.

I read all 22 pages and from what I can see, not one thing mentioned by any point by the OP was incorrect. If you can't be bothered to read this thread, I'm guessing you couldn't be bothered to read your actual policy and contract either right? Perhaps you should start there.
 
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How about all the people who are getting money that they DON'T deserve? "oh woe is me...I got rear-ended at 7km/hr and now I can't work or get an erection and fulfill my husbandly duties as a man with my wife...I think I should get $70k a year!" (even though he only made $35k to start with).

you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. get some firsthand experience, then come back and spew your crap.
 
you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. get some firsthand experience, then come back and spew your crap.
Actually my "opinion" isn't based on crap. Part of your policy does covers wage replacement. Although there is a cap (my numbers are off sure) but it is commonly abused. Insurance companys frequently hire Private Investigators to do surveillance on those who they think are taking advantage of this exact situation.

There used to be a scam several years ago (which I am familiar with based on fact), where several people would pay a fee of $500-$1000 to a "driver" to cause a collision with the payees in a minivan. Each one would then claim against the drivers insurance claiming that they are unable to work and wage replacement payments would begin within a few weeks of the claims being filed for overly inflated injuries. The "injuries" would be documented and inflated by a doctor who was also on the "payroll". It was then up to the fraud departments to investigate each case and prove it was all fraud. Obviously this is very costly to do in each case and many slip through.

There are even small companies that specialize in helping people defraud insurance companies. Many have been shut down but it still goes on.
 
Here is the opinion of one such potential abuser. This quote was in response to a rider who was hit from behind at a stop light and ended up with reasonably minor injuries. Mostly bumps, bruises and some sore muscles. Sure the rider should get checked out though, but the fellow below seems to think it a chance to milk the Cash Cow.


Do not ride a bike again till you have seen a doctor and spoken to your legal people.
It would be very difficult to disprove psycological damages, eg wetting the bed and nightmares. maybe even you might not be able to "rise" when the occasion needed it.
If your wife can stand up in court and say this and you tell your doctor so it is documented.
I also presume motorcycles were your life and you spent your weekends either fixing them or riding them to other motorcyclists and talking about them.
Now you are just scared of them, not only have they damaged your body, they have hurt your mind and taken away your social life as well.

Also if you cannot work they will pay you lost earnings.
If your neck hurt and you had to wear a brace and had to turn up in court wearing it, I'm just guessing that the pay out would be quite substancial, enough for your mortgage to be payed off.

And who knows, given enough counciling, you might even be able to ride again?
 
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Actually my "opinion" isn't based on crap. Part of your policy does covers wage replacement. Although there is a cap (my numbers are off sure) but it is commonly abused.

the max for income replacement is somewhere around $400/week. is that fair, esp if you earned and lived using more than that?


yesm there are people scamming. but it is not the majority as the uns. co;s like you to believe. it makes it REALLY hard to get what you deserve.
 
yesm there are people scamming. but it is not the majority as the uns. co;s like you to believe. it makes it REALLY hard to get what you deserve.
I doesn't have to be the majority, in fact it's a good thing it's not because those who are scamming the system are costing huge losses as it is. If more and more people do it though the system will completely fail. Not to say that it's perfect by any stretch but we need it.

It just makes me furious when I hear of ppl ripping off insurance companies because they feel that the insurance companies rip them off. When in fact they are part of the problem. Seriously...is it THAT hard to do the right thing and NOT steal? :rolleyes:

It's the insurance companies that are being abused and they have no choice but to lay that cost down to everyone else to stay afloat...with government approval. It's not like any other business, where they can just wake up one morning and decide to change their rates.

For most Insurance companies in Ontario, their auto insurance divisions run at (or near) a loss. They would rather not offer it at all but it's kinda like a lost leader. I believe that is why the Facility market was introduced...so that no ONE company had to bare the costs of too many dead beat drivers. Kinda like an insurance policy for insurance companies. Each of them adds to the "Facility pool".

As was mentioned earlier, profits are seen from other areas (stocks as well as home, commercial, life, etc).
 
the max for income replacement is somewhere around $400/week. is that fair, esp if you earned and lived using more than that?


yesm there are people scamming. but it is not the majority as the uns. co;s like you to believe. it makes it REALLY hard to get what you deserve.

Insurance fraud is a big deal, but you are correct that it isn't the only reason why rates increase. I have already went through a number of reasons explaining why insurance rates increase over time, so have a read if you like.

You are also correct; the standard coverage for Income Replacement is about $400/wk, but it is also priced assuming that you would receive only $400/wk if you were in an unfortunate situation where you needed to make use of this coverage. You have the option of increasing this limit; all you need to do is give your agent/broker a call, and pay a higher premium for the increased coverage.

Please note that the disability cap at $400/wk is only the income replacement portion of your policy . . . this has nothing to do with the huge lump-sum payments for punitive or other physical/emotional/psychological "damages". Usually the fraudulent injury claims occur in the latter situation, and there is no limit on the payout.

Cheers!
 
First of all thanks to viffer for posting all this information and being so patient with not only very foolish replies but also to those who are making honest inquiries or who were looking for clarification on on their perhaps slightly un-accurate points of view.

No problem . . . I'm glad to be of service. You seem to know a thing or two about the industry yourself :cool:

Cheers!
 
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