How to turn a red light ticket into a criminal record

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dextasy said:
so this guy is running from the police and he stops at a red light????
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Better reason to stop than this guy had:
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kwtoxman said:
Wrong.
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here's a quote from another board by a lawyer on that topic, plus I know of people that have been charged while riding lawn tractors.

KZDon said:
When a person is convicted of drinking and driving the court makes two orders regarding their ability to drive. There is a driving prohibition AND a licence suspension.


In Canada, upon conviction for a drink/drive offence an offender is prohibited from driving under the Criminal Code for a set period of time. The minimum for a first offence is one year.


At the same time as the court orders the Criminal Code prohibition (...prohibiting the offender from operating a motor vehicle on any street, road, highway or other public place...) by operation of the Highway Traffic Act in Ontario, an offender's licence is suspended for a period of time. For a first offence the minimum period is one year.


For example, for a first time offender (call him Bob) on an over 80 offence with no aggravating circumstances, Bob will be fined $1000.00, plus victim fine surcharge, and be prohibited from driving (...prohibiting the offender from operating a motor vehicle on any street, road, highway or other public place...) for one year under the Criminal Code. Bob will also have his licence suspended under the (Ontario) Highway Traffic Act for one year.


In order to have his licence reinstated after that year Bob will have to take a Back on Track program administered by the MTO, pay any outstanding fines, and have an ignition interlock device installed on any motor vehicle he drives. Bob can choose to wait an additional year and avoid the ignition interlock device but will still have to pay all fines and take the Back on Track program.


If Bob does none of those things the Criminal Code driving prohibition will expire after one year, but the licence suspension will remain in effect until he follows the reinstatement requirements.


To get back to the original question.... the answer partly rides on the definition of motor vehicle under two operating laws, the Criminal Code (federal) and the Highway Traffic Act (provincial), and partly on the difference between the Criminal Code prohibition and the Highway Traffic Act licence suspension.


The Criminal Code contains a broad definition of Motor Vehicle that essentially includes anything not driven by muscle power. An e-bike has a motor, and is therefore a motor vehicle under the Criminal Code.


Under the Highway Traffic Act e-bikes are exempted from the licencing regime, and are an exception to the definition of motor vehicle. Under this (ill-conceived) pilot project, persons over 16, without a driver's licence, insurance, any training, or a functioning brain, as long as they wear a bicycle helmet, may operate an e-bike in most of the same places a bicycle can go.


In summary, Bob, with a suspended licence can ride an e-bike, but if he rides it during the one year period of his Criminal Code prohibition he can be charged with driving while prohibited - judges like to send people to jail for that.


And, people who ride e-bikes after drinking can be charged with drinking and driving offences, just as if they were driving their cars or motorcycles, or anything else not propelled by muscular power.
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any street, road, highway or other public place
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Does your lawn count as one of those? Were your friends perhaps drunk while riding a lawn tractor down the road? lol

Does that mean you could still ride on a track (since it's not public)?
 
unL33T said:
Does your lawn count as one of those? Were your friends perhaps drunk while riding a lawn tractor down the road? lol

Does that mean you could still ride on a track (since it's not public)?
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the first couple meters including sidewalk is city property. the sidewalk is considered to be a public place.... the track like a mall is privately owned but public access, it could be considered public place.
 
dextasy said:
so this guy is running from the police and he stops at a red light????
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Maybe there was dense traffic or maybe he was unaware of the police behind him.. Riding in his own world, as far as hes concerned he was the last one through the red light so there's no one behind him.. and his listening to music in his helmet. Maybe copy never used Sirens.. we dont know . Maybe when cop approached he thought it was a "bike jacking" and was going to take off.. ;-)
 
DoubleJ said:
Probably like what most E bike riders do, they remove the flop eared pedals. It is now a motorcycle for all intense purposes. Tough luck but no condolences coming from me.
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This. If an e-bike still has working pedals, it's a bicycle. Remove them, and it's legally classified as a motorcycle.
 
unL33T said:
Does your lawn count as one of those? Were your friends perhaps drunk while riding a lawn tractor down the road? lol

Does that mean you could still ride on a track (since it's not public)?
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Bingo. You can drive and do whatever you want on private property. Pull out a motorhome, your car, a boat, whatever, and rip around.

CruisnGrrl said:
the first couple meters including sidewalk is city property. the sidewalk is considered to be a public place.... the track like a mall is privately owned but public access, it could be considered public place.
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Wrong again. Yes, the sidewalk and first metre or so from it is not private property. But private property is private property. No, a mall is not a public area, it is private property. Same with a track.

http://fightthecharges.com/driving-prohibitions-vs-driving-suspensions/
What is important though is that the restrictions imposed by s.259 do not apply to private property. This means that operating something like a snowmobile on your own property or a tractor would be ok so long as you never crossed a road, right-of-way, trail or other public area.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_space

Again, your earlier quote is far too broad and just wrong. It's bad advice.
CruisnGrrl said:
..... if you are disqualified from driving you can not operate anything with a motor, even a lawn tractor to cut your grass is prohibited.
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So, even when disqualified from driving, you can operate whatever you want on private property, including mowing the lawn with a drive mower; it is perfectly fine and legal. And call me crazy, but I'm highly skeptical that cops would bother to locate and dig up the survey posts underground to determine property boundaries and pursue someone who is drive mowing their lawn while disqualified from driving.

Your posts here Cruisngrrl are usually good but these couple posts needed to be corrected. Meh, no one's perfect. :)
 
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oomis said:
This. If an e-bike still has working pedals, it's a bicycle. Remove them, and it's legally classified as a motorcycle.
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That is true only as far as provincial law goes.

As far as the Criminal Code is concerned, it is a motorized vehicle whether pedals are attached or not. A driving prohibition arising from conviction for a Criminal Code offence means that you cannot operate an e-bike period, pedals-on or pedals-off.
 
hedo2002 said:
Not sure how requiring a "vehicle" being operated on a highway to have a licenced driver who has insurance to protect themselves and others, along with a plate, (to properly identify the vehicle). Is an errosion of our "freedom". Personally I am willing to surrender that "freedom" so I, (my family and the health care system), don't get screwed over when one of these fools hit me. Hint from his behaviour an argument could be made he was brain dead BEFORE the collision..lol
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A bicycle is also a vehicle, and with strong legs can go faster than an ebike. Should all bicyclists have to have ins? How about a skateboard or roller blades? Any law restricts freedom. I'm not suprized you are willing to give up your freedom, you are an ex cop, do what you are told. I would rather have as much freedom as possible.
 
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gsxr guy said:
A bicycle is also a vehicle, and with strong legs can go faster than an ebike. Should all bicyclists have to have ins? How about a skateboard or roller blades? Any law restricts freedom. I'm not suprized you are willing to give up your freedom, you are an ex cop, do what you are told. I would rather have as much freedom as possible.
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Ok so I'll ride my bicycles on the sidewalk. Better stay out of the way of that. 9 times out of 10 the pedestrian will lose. It's not about "freedoms" it's called being adults and making proper decisions. Driving a motorized anything on a public road way should require insurance and a plate. To get those you need a license. End of story.
 
conundrum said:
More likely they grew up playing video games...once you can no longer see the cop or hear sirens, then the cop no longer exists/your star rating goes back to normal.
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Lmfao James I almost ****** my pants.... Awesome man! Hahahaha best comment!
 
gsxr guy said:
A bicycle is also a vehicle, and with strong legs can go faster than an ebike. Should all bicyclists have to have ins? How about a skateboard or roller blades? Any law restricts freedom. I'm not suprized you are willing to give up your freedom, you are an ex cop, do what you are told. I would rather have as much freedom as possible.
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No under current legislation a motorized vehicle, (which an ebike is), when used on a public road should require insurance, a plate and a valid drivers permit. One can't ride an atv on the public road wthout all those, and generally operate at speeds similiar to an ebike. How is being meeting the SAME requirements as every other motorized vehicle, operating on a public road a loss of "freedom"

I am pretty certain that is some twit on an ebike hit your car, (on a public road), and caused $5000 damage, and said sorry I have no insurance and no money so it is all on you. Or they hit a family member walking, (Legally), in a crosswalk, and that same twit decided he need not stop for that pesky crosswalk, and made that relative a vegatable for the rest of their life, with MILLIONS in helath costs. Your definition of "freedom" might change.
 
hedo2002 said:
No under current legislation a motorized vehicle, (which an ebike is), when used on a public road should require insurance, a plate and a valid drivers permit.
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Dafuq?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles.shtml
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml

What is an e-bike

E-bikes in Ontario must have:
steering handlebars
working pedals
an electric motor not exceeding 500 Watts
a maximum speed of 32 km/h
a maximum weight of 120 kg
a permanent label from the manufacturer in both English and French stating that your e-bike conforms to the federal definition of a power-assisted bicycle
It is illegal to modify your e-bike's motor to make it more powerful or to increase the speed of your e-bike.
What e-bike riders need

You don't need a driver's licence, vehicle permit or licence plate to ride an e-bike, but you do need to:
be 16 or older
wear an approved bicycle or motorcycle helmet
keep your e-bike in good working order
You also need to follow the same rules of the road as regular cyclists.
Cycling Skills: Ontario's Guide to Safe Cycling (PDF - 3.39 MB)
Where to ride an e-bike

You can ride your e-bike on most roads and highways where conventional bikes are permitted, with some exceptions.
You can't ride your e-bike:
on certain provincial controlled access highways, such as the 400 series, the Queen Elizabeth Way, the Queensway in Ottawa or the Kitchener-Waterloo Expressway
on municipal roads, including sidewalks, where bicycles are banned under municipal by-laws
on municipal roads, sidewalks, bike paths, bike trails or bike lanes where e-bikes are prohibited
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This is even more interesting, and contradicts some of the earlier info.
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/1305/ruling-confirms-e-bikes-are-not-motor-vehicles.html
 
Let me make it clearer for you...

No under current legislation a motorized vehicle, (which an ebike is), when used on a public road should require insurance, a plate and a valid drivers permit.

So as you can see I didn't say they do. I said they should... But thanks for trying, to provide a refresher course. I have read the HTA more than a few times.

kwtoxman said:
Dafuq?

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles.shtml
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/driver/electric-bicycles-faq.shtml



This is even more interesting, and contradicts some of the earlier info.
http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/1305/ruling-confirms-e-bikes-are-not-motor-vehicles.html
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