How is this ok?

kneedragger88

kneedragger88

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Ok I am looking on FB and someone posted some pics of last weekends trackday at TMP.
I look at this shot and a few things SCREAM at me. There is ZERO protection on a five foot concrete wall on a third gear 60mph corner!!!!!!! WTF! I took a boat load of heat running races here in 2009 because of that same wall. I covered the wall at my expense and labour. Now I see in this pic the bags I built that needed replacing at 2011 when SOAR left TMP are not even on the wall let alone replaced as they should have been. They are in no mans land and in another photo in the pits. NONE on the same wall that people were all over me about. Yet nobody says anything?Really?
A few years ago everyone was all about holding people responsible for safety (rightfully so) and now its all good? Recent comments about the RDT back it up, top gear 150mph with 50 feet to a wall is ok????? Really?. Guess safety is not such a big deal anymore. Guess I wont be hearing any issues this season.....huh? Wow!
 
Never done a non-school trackday in my life but I was aware of the push that was made for improvement for TMP... surprised as well to see it evaporated so quickly
 
Kevlar denim offers lots of protection these days. Maybe the wall protection is not needed anymore.
 
The short answer is that it's not OK, and it blows my mind how track owners don't have minimum standards for those who use the track. TMP is far from alone in this. I think they are making use of the "can't get blood out of a stone" approach to being sued.

Go to track days and roadracing events that are organized by someone who has a clue of what's going on. Don't go to the others even if they are cheaper - although even national-level organizers have had problems with not listening and not paying attention to wake-up calls. Right now, it's the only way this will change.

As for the new RDT, it's better than it could have been, but not as good as it could have been, and it's clear that haybales, air fence, or John Bickle's homegrown barriers will be needed.
 
Oh these ones? (Warning language NSFW)

BTW I was the one who approached you at round 3(?) last year and commented how well you run an amateur/semi pro organization. Keep your head high and keep striving to improve the sport. There are people like myself that have competed in other forms of proffesional racing that can see the hard work you and your volunteers put in.

[video=youtube;vreUlIu3-x4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vreUlIu3-x4#t=29[/video]
 
The picture looks a bit shocking. I wonder if the track does know and someone said to take the safety fence down because if something happens and it's not good enough then they can sue the track for doing a poor job but if there is no safety fence then the track can say they had no idea that this would happen because it has never happened before (the Humpty Dumpty role playing) and in the meantime the track doesn't have to maintain it.
 
rbjeepthing said:
Oh these ones? (Warning language NSFW)

BTW I was the one who approached you at round 3(?) last year and commented how well you run an amateur/semi pro organization. Keep your head high and keep striving to improve the sport. There are people like myself that have competed in other forms of proffesional racing that can see the hard work you and your volunteers put in.

[video=youtube;vreUlIu3-x4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vreUlIu3-x4#t=29[/video]
Click to expand...

Wtf @ everyone stopping and getting out of the cars
 
I'm not a car expert but I have a strong suspicion that the red car with the giant rear spoiler is a front wheel drive car.
 
I did a track day last year at TMP and they had a few hay bales against the wall... lol
I remembered seeing the video of the car hitting the bales while I was doing laps and it stuck in the back of my mind the whole time I was there.
When coming out of the last two turns before the wall of death, I was being a huge pussy.
 
There is also a 4x4 with no protection at all in between the last two corners. I assume its to put a chain across track entrance. I only live 40 min. Away and only went there twice last year. I take the last corners like I'm riding naked. Guess its grand bend for local trackdays this year.
 
kellen said:
Wtf @ everyone stopping and getting out of the cars
Click to expand...

...and no ambulance?

The last few times I've been at TMP it's been a bit of a gong show. Completely inconsistent tech inspection, marshals sitting at the stations heads down texting all day long, and of course inadequate protection as Ken pointed out. All good reasons why I don't want to go there anymore.

As for the new CTMP RDT, it does look better than expected, and I will go check it out, but if I don't feel safe there I won't go back. I don't feel safe on CTMP big track, and the next time I go there I certainly won't be pushing it...
 
I am not so much surprised at TMP not covering that wall. I argued with Uli about that wall being an issue and his stand was it was no problem. I ordered those bags and picked them up in Ft Erie. My crew came down and filled them with bales that I trucked from Bowmanville. When I left them there I told the track that they should be removed during car lapping. Just lift the last six or eight into infield. Didnt happen, every time I returned the last few were burst. Water gets in and destroys the bales inside. Again in 2010 I built another set (40). I also built a dropped lowboy dolly so the bags could be wheeled across track easily and left it there to hopefully save the bags. Nope! found the caster wheels in a firepit. When we ran reverse I would truck in 200 bales to use for a chicane and then would add to wall at end of event.
What I see now is NOTHING has been done since 2010. What I find bizarre is nobody is saying anything and its just accepted as ok. How can any of you expect changes and/or improvements if nobody says anything. This isnt a light matter it could potentially be your life.
As for RDT I am sorry its going to need more than Bickles bottle bags. Coming off that front straight ENDS at a concrete wall that now ends 50 feet earlier. BIG DEAL! I can show you my email to Miles last summer in horror at the design and presto a chicane added in (first bandaid). While better its still horrid. If you tuck on brakes and slide that extra 50 feet on pavement will do next to nothing to scrub off any significant speed before impact. Lets talk about the exit of same corner, ends right into another concrete wall. Then Turn 5 and 6 with armco all the way through it 40 feet from surface. At the far end of the track at the tight right, the barrier comes within 10 feet of surface at the exit (right where bikes will be on side of tire accelerating). Coming through the chicane coming onto front straight again accelerating as hard as possible on side of tire has a wall right at track edge.
Sorry but this track is another Calabogie designed by car guys and will be bandaided for the afterthought bikes. Trackday doable with some restraint in the bad bits but no way to race on it, unfortunate and didnt need to be that way a few minor alterations it could have been outstanding and still have the same character.
My beef is for whatever reason nobody cares enough to say anything anymore, Why?
I took a ton of heat about the TMP wall. Then about doing it backwards.Then because there were trailers 150-200 yards off a straightaway..... Bickle has spearheaded soft barriers for years. We as racers quit racing places like Sanair, Alma, even Mosport big track when the safety wasnt addressed. Now its just accepted as OK? Sad really. Organizers and owners should be held accountable (me included) But I have to say I am having a very difficult time listening to someone scream at me me for ten minutes about a traffic cone getting knocked on the track (happened last year) while dozens will ride happily on a track with zero protection.
Rant over carry on with the discussion.
 
So is Grand Bend the only safe track in Ontario? Shannonville has the Nelson turn pit wall, and of course the bedrock run-offs, so it's not so safe. Are you talking safe for any bike riding or safe for racing? People say Calabogie is fine if you let up in a few spots to minimise risk, same for TMP if everyone parks it in the final turn. I'm not trying to defend any lack of thoughts of bike safety by TMP, Calabogie, CTMP...
 
Read what I said.
Calabogie and likely RDT likely fine for trackdays where you can lift but NOT for racing. Nationals prived that at Bogie their first year. Wonder why no racing scheduled at RDT? Every track has issues. Its how they ate adressed and/or midigated that matters. TMP can be made much better. Just isnt at momment. SMP has always protected the wall as eell as changing the configuation of final corner. Mosport big track came arounf huge in runoff it used to be armco lined although a step backwards with the FIA mandated paved runoff. Some tracks are safer than others for certain as trackday goers you make ypur decision on safety risks and can roll out if questionable. But in racing that just doesnt happen and people will get seriously hurt or worse. Yes I would suggest that GBM is by far the safest. Maybe not the most interesting but defineatly the safest.

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Sorry, missed that line in your earlier post. People continue to be seriously hurt and killed on CTMP big track but CSBK is back there again this year. Part of the reason is probably the lack of track choices.
 
Problem number 1 for racing in Ontario: we only get 6..maaaaybe 7 months of the year to race.
In reality, any "improvements" NEED to be budgeted with cash from events coming in for those months in action. Compared to the southern states where they can run year round, there is no comparison. Of course, everyone calls for cheaper events in an already truncated season, so something has to give.

Not giving excuses to why things are, (they are terrible: I remember attending an event at TMP maybe last year or two years ago, and an integra got loose and ended up on it's side at turn 1/2. The red-flag reaction despite walkies were painfully slow, and people from the pits were already on the track before the flags were out. My jaw dropped @the organizers). Some organizers can really learn just from the local autox-clubs. While "big" oopsies are super rare, the marshals (every single participant marshals at the events they participate in) are all on point, and up to the task.
 
kneedragger88 said:
Read what I said.
Calabogie and likely RDT likely fine for trackdays where you can lift but NOT for racing. Nationals prived that at Bogie their first year. Wonder why no racing scheduled at RDT? Every track has issues. Its how they ate adressed and/or midigated that matters. TMP can be made much better. Just isnt at momment. SMP has always protected the wall as eell as changing the configuation of final corner. Mosport big track came arounf huge in runoff it used to be armco lined although a step backwards with the FIA mandated paved runoff. Some tracks are safer than others for certain as trackday goers you make ypur decision on safety risks and can roll out if questionable. But in racing that just doesnt happen and people will get seriously hurt or worse. Yes I would suggest that GBM is by far the safest. Maybe not the most interesting but defineatly the safest.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
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You say that RDT and Bogie are ok for track days but not racing, the pic you took is of a trackday not a race so it's the same thing, no? Take it easier on the last turn at TMP just like you would take it easier in the few spots on the other tracks to make it safer for yourself. I understand why you are complaining about people giving you crap and yelling at you for their safety but then don't care about their safety in trackdays to say anything but the people that are giving you crap about their safety in racing might not be the ones that are doing trackdays at TMP now.

As you have mentioned though the only way that safety issues will get changed are for people to step up and say/do something. This will be my first year racing so I obviously can't speak as to the difference from racing to a trackday but I do a couple a year at TMP, Bogie and have a day booked at RDT but would not be racing at TMP without protection at the wall. Your safety concerns are appreciated by people, I am sure that you hear more people complain then you hear people say thanks however that's how things are nowadays and people go out of their way to complain but don't go out of their way to give thanks.
 
I was at TMP last year for a car event...chicks and all bending over the wall to cheer and take pix. lol. there was a photographer girl who kept running across the track to get to the inner circle to take pictures from that side, better hope she looked both ways
 
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