Riceburner
Well-known member
If it makes economic sense and holds the charge to go a long distance, I've got nothing against an electric bike.
How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles?
- Thread starter 油井緋色
- Start date
Looks like those Zero SRs are claiming 300+km for urban riding.
But, like $16k + almost another $3k for the bigger capacity though.
Whew!
I actually find the electric bikes (and cars etc) interesting. Essentially instant full torque should make for a pleasing ride. Sure I love the sound of a well tuned ICE spinning up to redline, and always will but I think the electric bikes could/should be a blast. They will have to come down to a much better price point for me to even consider purchasing one though.
Trials
Well-known member
They still need a clutch and gears to work well :/ without a clutch they like to roll backwards and it's a !@#$% to stop them from rolling backwards on a steep uphill slope at really low speed where you need to make an occasional full stop. add: a spinning motor has gyroscopic effect to ease balancing and a stopped electric motor doesn't have that.
I don't understand ... I mean I get it you prefer to have a clutch ... but your reasoning baffles me a bit. We know that most electric bikes (perhaps not all applications) simply do not require gearbox, thus have no need for a clutch (exception being off-road trial bikes, where really the ability to slip or cut power at need is essential; on the road application has no need for that). All you need is wide ranging RPMs and ever present torque to deliver power everywhere. Hills ... what happened to your brakes? ... why would you need clutch to deal with hills?? The same in EV car .... up to certain grade the car will simply "hold" position without me even applying brakes or throttle. You can also hold it by applying throttle in a sensitive way ....
BTW, even Brammo has confirmed back in a day, that only reason they were putting gearbox in a bike is to give a rider feel of a conventional bike, not to make it more efficient or anything else on the street. There's no notable benefit to it, it just complicates the system and increases costs for street bikes.
There's no gyroscopic benefit to a spinning motor unless you're able to input different alignment forces into the spinning components than the stationary ones. At a standstill, they are equally affected by gravity so there's no gyroscopic 'balancing' effect.
I don't understand how a clutch helps? When the clutch is pulled in, the bike rolls back, when the clutch is engaged with no power to the motor, the bike rolls back.
An upside to electric is with a tiny bit of manufacturer effort this could easily be fixed. When the throttle is at 0 and the bike is stopped, the motor could hold the vehicle in place.
Assuming you are using the bike on the streets, no gears are needed (and in fact they just make things heavier and slower). Offroad or on a track where the desired range of operating speeds varies incredibly, it may make sense.
Soon enough electric vehicles will dominate racing where they are allowed. Existing ICE bikes with automatic transmissions are already faster around many tracks (but nobody uses them because gears are half the fun).
Apparently these Zero SRs are rated for 116lb ft torque but they 'tune' the motor so you don't get it all at once. I suppose they are worried about looping.
Zack Courts reviewed one on YouTube and he got a small wheelie out of it
Face
Well-known member
Two separate but related issues:
1. EVs will only become the dominant fuel when a) you can go as far on a charge as I can on a tank, & b) when you can recharge as quickly and conveniently as you can fill up. That will require significant improvements in battery technology and a more significant investment in charging and green generating infrastructure. The technology is progressing faster than the infrastructure, but when the infrastructure catches up, I expect that we will see a more dramatic shift change.
2. Engagement in the act of driving/riding. My car has a stick shift and all my bikes are manual. I enjoy the act of driving/riding and a manual transmission makes you more a part of that act. It involves more awareness and more planning (dropping down a gear in advance of accelerating, etc). EVs are marketed as much for their ease of use as for their environmental friendliness. Yes its going this way with ICE too, with all the new safety and semi-autonomous driving features meant to save us from bad driving habits. But personally I think they are mostly just encouraging more people to be more oblivious while driving. And given the way things are going, I really don't expect any affordable EVs to really fulfill the engagement objective.
I'm a dinosaur. For me, the more #2 is ignored, the longer I'll avoid adopting #1. But I know I'm in the minority, especially in North America. I'm just hoping I can still find gas and used manual bikes/cars as long as I'm around riding and driving. And as far as global warming is concerned, I support the diversified approach to the solution. Whether its shipping, trucking, airplanes, cars or cow farts, changes are only going to make a difference if they affect the mass market. But please don't legislate away the ability for enthusiasts to enjoy their interests. On a global picture, we really don't make a difference.
1. EVs will only become the dominant fuel when a) you can go as far on a charge as I can on a tank, & b) when you can recharge as quickly and conveniently as you can fill up. That will require significant improvements in battery technology and a more significant investment in charging and green generating infrastructure. The technology is progressing faster than the infrastructure, but when the infrastructure catches up, I expect that we will see a more dramatic shift change.
2. Engagement in the act of driving/riding. My car has a stick shift and all my bikes are manual. I enjoy the act of driving/riding and a manual transmission makes you more a part of that act. It involves more awareness and more planning (dropping down a gear in advance of accelerating, etc). EVs are marketed as much for their ease of use as for their environmental friendliness. Yes its going this way with ICE too, with all the new safety and semi-autonomous driving features meant to save us from bad driving habits. But personally I think they are mostly just encouraging more people to be more oblivious while driving. And given the way things are going, I really don't expect any affordable EVs to really fulfill the engagement objective.
I'm a dinosaur. For me, the more #2 is ignored, the longer I'll avoid adopting #1. But I know I'm in the minority, especially in North America. I'm just hoping I can still find gas and used manual bikes/cars as long as I'm around riding and driving. And as far as global warming is concerned, I support the diversified approach to the solution. Whether its shipping, trucking, airplanes, cars or cow farts, changes are only going to make a difference if they affect the mass market. But please don't legislate away the ability for enthusiasts to enjoy their interests. On a global picture, we really don't make a difference.
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Yes I can see how that kind of torque in the wrong hands, err hand, could be hazardous! A user adjustable system would be a lot of fun though 
Apparently these Zero SRs are rated for 116lb ft torque but they 'tune' the motor so you don't get it all at once. I suppose they are worried about looping.
Zack Courts reviewed one on YouTube and he got a small wheelie out of it
I predict a huge, "cold dead hands" reaction when governments begin to encroach on people's (especially Americans and rural Canadians) prime movers. In urban areas like the GTA I expect the overwhelming number of liberal-leaners to embrace it all. In smaller, rural and remote communities you're going to see a strenuous pushback. People take their trucks, recreational vehicles etc pretty seriously out in the boonies.
I am a dinosaur as well, I never pay extra for any electronic helpers/gizmos, unless they come standard. When am I backing up, I can do it quicker using mirrors or old fashioned shoulder turn, rather then always dirty camera trying to lineup stupid yellow lines, or waiting forever for a car to self-park. That's just the way I am, and I always will be.
Having said that, there's one thing you have completely wrong ... the affordable EV's absolutely can be fun and engaging to drive. I can tell you have never tried one. No gears, just throttle pedal and smooth power. City driving is really a hoot going around cars. The only issue is that often you are the fastest accelerating car out there, so you have to really watch your speed otherwise it will cost you if done at the wrong place and time. But boring? No way (of course you can make it boring, by driving always in lane, never changing it and just follow all the ICE cars, but why would you?) .... I dread the days when I have to commute in my relatively expensive and more luxury ICE car .... that seems to be now the new boring ... LOL
You give me any Tesla car and I am in real trouble (car is almost twice as quick as my car pretty much). It's a good thing that I will never spend as much on a car ...
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There will not be pushback, because they will not go after rural areas. GTA alone has roughly 1/6th population of Canada ... that will be obviously their target at some point in future. You throw in Montreal and Vancouver and they could stop there and call it job done for long time.
Who hasn’t had a blast on a golf cart? The only time they suck is when your buddies have one that is faster.
.....and not the electric nanny ones at some courses. And not the gas jobs either.
Electric golf carts are awesome and can rip up a golf course.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
.....and not the electric nanny ones at some courses. And not the gas jobs either.
Electric golf carts are awesome and can rip up a golf course.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yup, especially in the States where there a growing trend to associate automobiles with personal rights and freedoms. You can see how intimate it is to people by reading between the lines in this thread how some treat cars as an extension of their personal identity. People have gone to war for less.
The misinformation is a big clue to that, it's an indicator of the internal rationalizations people come up with to justify their attachment to cars. Tie that in to an overdose of cynicism and paranoia about government intentions and capabilities, and it's a powderkeg.
But if EVs turn out to be half the benefit that is being described here, they won't need much regulation to become mainstream. Carbon taxes will go way up regardless. Maybe some tax rebates in rural areas until battery technology gets to the stage where it can provide equivalent range to gas vehicles? Oh, and a road tax of course to pay for the infrastructure that we currently pay through gas taxes.
Driving enthusiasts today will be like equestrians at the dawn of the automobile age, pushed out of public spaces and into expensive, exclusive areas to exercise their hobby. That'll be partly due to electrification but mostly due to the self-driving revolution. But people may see it as an assault on their self-image, their right to existence, the same way they think of guns now.
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Face
Well-known member
You're right, I haven't driven one. But you never hear about people praising the Leaf, Prius or Volt for their performance and fun factor. I'll give it a try, but if its only about pressing one pedal to go and another to slow, I'll probably get bored. And I doubt that I would ever be rich enough to consider a Tesla.
The world has moved on past gen 1 Leaf or Prius ... don't settle for what the naysayers keep repeating. Try it, form your own opinion. Not sure what you drive now, but I kissed goodbye Mini Cooper S as I knew BWM will not have an EV version until 2020 probably and it will cost +50K$ new. It was manual with sport package and fantastic driving feel. But it also was German, with 135K on the clock and required Premium gas .... Honestly, I don't miss it. Yes, I wish my EV would have telepathic steering like the Mini, but that's about the only thing I can come up with. You very quickly find out that there's other things to value in EV ... of course there's a chance that you are going to fall into minority and dislike the modern EV experience. Quite possible, but most people admit they were just wrong.
It also doesn't mean that you have to buy one (because obviously numbers don't line up for everyone, understandably). But I think it would all serve us well, if at least people go try it and form their own opinion, rather than just listen to some people who either don't have one and try to dismiss them or simply misunderstand them.
BTW hopefully soon, you will be able to order and take delivery of more affordable Tesla (so far you can just order it, but you have to wait looong time; I don't think they even have demos yet in showrooms in Canada). Model 3 is not for just rich people when average value of new cars purchased is considered.
If that's the biggest problem, I look forward to the next batch of EV's. That is something that can easily be dealt with and isn't affected much by the powertrain (maybe a slight benefit to flexible packaging allowing better alignment and a minus to the EV being heavier).
Could GM make a corvette by running the Volt electric system on every wheel and bigger ICE motor/gen? It's probably not the best system, but it should give a good combination of handling/sound/speed.
It's just drives like whatever its ICE parents drives like ... which reflects the average korean/japanese car steering feel. I don't think there a fix, that's just the way they want to sell the cars. The problem is me, buying a car really not made for my type of a customer ... it will change rather quickly. In 3 years there will be an EV for everyone, without having to settle for anything. I was just merely painting what mattered to me in my case.
Not sure about Corvette since you need a lot of power with very little room to spare .... but they could have put into something bigger and more practical for sure. At some point, the Voltec makes no sense. The pure EV will be the right solution, rather than infinitely trying to solve things with Voltec. Make no mistake, I like everything about Voltec there's ...
Not sure about Corvette since you need a lot of power with very little room to spare .... but they could have put into something bigger and more practical for sure. At some point, the Voltec makes no sense. The pure EV will be the right solution, rather than infinitely trying to solve things with Voltec. Make no mistake, I like everything about Voltec there's ...
