Housing Market

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this house in Milton has 4X since I bought it, and i could buy it today if I had to, but I wouldnt. This was a sleepy little outpost and from my house to the farmland was one block, now I'm geographically in the center of 100,000 people. Literally hundreds of minivans with a dent in every corner and no concept of what a yellow traffic could mean. Folks trying to put 4 cars in a two car drive and zero lawn mantainence.
The property values have gone way up, but the standard of living is in decline.
 
mmmnaked said:
So how much? 500k? 800k? Mil+????

Can you afford to live in a 500k house?
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I don't want to get specific. Let's say it's priced between Vancouver and Manitouwadge. I don't know where you're going with this. Everybody knows the state of the job market and house prices. Most honest working wage slaves are under the gun like never before, the only saving grace is cheap credit and old family money. Of course anybody who wants anything above a tent city plot should put their shoulder to the grindstone but holy crap are we put on this earth to slave away under artificial constraints? Some people seem to think so.
 
Where Im going is where I've already been, and what prompted your reply. I said people with decent jobs can still afford a detached house in and around Toronto and then I posted that map pic with 100+ sub-600k listings of such homes. You countered with "I couldn't afford my own house right now" which is why I asked what its worth...

You and the last few posters all said that the values of your homes have increased (tripled, quadrupled!) but you're attaching a negative connotation to it. Personally I'm ecstatic that my house is worth several hundred thousand more than what I paid in 2011. That gives me flexibility. Do I expect my wages to keep up with the real estate market 10-12% gains? Uh no, that's not at all realistic.
 
crankcall said:
this house in Milton has 4X since I bought it, and i could buy it today if I had to, but I wouldnt. This was a sleepy little outpost and from my house to the farmland was one block, now I'm geographically in the center of 100,000 people. Literally hundreds of minivans with a dent in every corner and no concept of what a yellow traffic could mean. Folks trying to put 4 cars in a two car drive and zero lawn mantainence.
The property values have gone way up, but the standard of living is in decline.
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I started packing 5 minutes after they turned on the valve in the new water pipeline.
 
Matt Rain said:
I'm in Drake's old building, the one he mentions in a song (?)

I really don't see CityPlace turning into a ghetto, it's too well located. We will probably buy a 2+1 here once we go ahead with baby #2. Not with the mindset that it's primarily an investment. We just like it here.
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I had a condo in Cityplace Luna - The empty space in between all those building is reserved for a Government housing building set to go up.
 
ZX600 said:
I had a condo in Cityplace Luna - The empty space in between all those building is reserved for a Government housing building set to go up.
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The empty space is actually going to be two schools and a community centre. There's already a couple of TCHC towers over by Dan Leckie. My son goes to a licensed home daycare in one of them. S'one of them mixed-income experiments. It's fine.

I used to poo-poo on CityPlace too before I moved here. I lived in a Victorian house in the Annex before that. I loved the Annex but I'd rather be close to the harbourfront, Skydome and King West restaurants. Look 'ma, no need for a car. It's pretty amazing overall.
 
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Matt Rain said:
The empty space is actually going to be two schools and a community centre. There's already a couple of TCHC towers over by Dan Leckie. My son goes to a licensed home daycare in one of them. S'one of them mixed-income experiments. It's fine.

I used to poo-poo on CityPlace too before I moved here. I lived in a Victorian house in the Annex before that. I loved the Annex but I'd rather be close to the harbourfront, Skydome and King West restaurants. Look 'ma, no need for a car. It's pretty amazing overall.
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Not at all, I love city place, only thing I hated was trying to exit into spadina from my building on a Saturday night it would take me 20 min, my wife wrote the MP so they would make the light green for longer and we got the canned response "smart lights blablabla" a year after we moved we received another letter letting us know we were right and that they change the timing of the light.. no ****. It's better now that they opened the exit towards the east.

Great building, I was in the 32nd floor.

But paying that kind of money to have someone tell me I can't have my bike on my spot I payed 30k for!! Anyways we sold it for about 50k more than what it was bought for and moved, we bought really early, like 5 years before we moved in.

Are you sure we are talking about the same spot? We were told it was going to be government housing. Glad if I am wrong
 
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The lot just east of the park? Right across from the Luna condo, on the south side of Fort York?
 
I lived in Cityplace for almost 10 years, sold last summer. Couldn't be happier to get out of there. In 10 years those buildings will be unaffordable as they are so poorly constructed the maintenance fees will be astronomical. I was in Apex, right on Front st. Thankfully it was well managed, but they are facing massive reno bills for things like windows that are all in need of replacement less than 15 years after the condo was built. They sued (and won) Concord dozens of time in the 10 years I was there for massive deficiencies and shady long term contracts and leases that Concord signed the condo up for before the board was established. Matrix next door was even worse. It was so bad that for two years no lender would wright a mortgage on a property there because of outstanding structural issues. I'm sure they are still up to their necks in the project to fix it.

The traffic issues and crowds were what finally drove us out though. If there was a game letting out we just couldn't get out of the driveway and it was non stop noise.
 
A slight market correction for most, will be a crash for some.
I know people that would be wiped out by a 1% interest rate increase.
I had a conversation with a young lady I know on Saturday... Her young family (husband and 1 toddler) have $29 left at the end of the week after all bills are paid, groceries bought, etc... and that includes the husband working overtime on saturdays every week. I asked her what happens if she got a flat on the way home... "credit card".
 
@mmmnaked do you consider sub $600k affordable? Because I don’t (assuming 500- 599 is sub 600)
But also people think that they deserve a detached home. So they over extend themselves. We're thinking of an investment property. We have the number in mind. Now we need to find what we can get for that much.
Another problem is that people nowadays want everything. I want a detached double car garage house close to work with a large yard. I want a luxury car. I want a $1k cell phone. I want a data plan so I can check facebook in the grocery store....
I've said it before and I will continue to say it (and what I tell my kids): you can have ANYTHING that you want. You can't have EVERYTHING that you want.


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Joe Bass said:
@mmmnaked do you consider sub $600k affordable? Because I don’t (assuming 500- 599 is sub 600)
But also people think that they deserve a detached home. So they over extend themselves. We're thinking of an investment property. We have the number in mind. Now we need to find what we can get for that much.
Another problem is that people nowadays want everything. I want a detached double car garage house close to work with a large yard. I want a luxury car. I want a $1k cell phone. I want a data plan so I can check facebook in the grocery store....
I've said it before and I will continue to say it (and what I tell my kids): you can have ANYTHING that you want. You can't have EVERYTHING that you want.


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I consider it affordable yes. A career individual with some savings should be able to afford such a house. I did.

Like I mentioned earlier, expectations have to be adjusted. You want the house or a 3 series BMW lease for $800/mo?? Younger professionals early in their careers tend to gravitate towards luxurious things, and then complain they can't afford a house. They're dumb.
 
mmmnaked said:
Where Im going is where I've already been, and what prompted your reply. I said people with decent jobs can still afford a detached house in and around Toronto and then I posted that map pic with 100+ sub-600k listings of such homes. You countered with "I couldn't afford my own house right now" which is why I asked what its worth...

You and the last few posters all said that the values of your homes have increased (tripled, quadrupled!) but you're attaching a negative connotation to it. Personally I'm ecstatic that my house is worth several hundred thousand more than what I paid in 2011. That gives me flexibility. Do I expect my wages to keep up with the real estate market 10-12% gains? Uh no, that's not at all realistic.
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Assuming the minimum down payment of 5%, you would need a 570k mortgage to buy a 600k house. That requires an income of about 98k/yr (assuming you have no other debt). Considering 98k is well above an average income, I wouldn't call 600k affordable.
 
Joe Bass said:
Preach, brother inreb. I could never afford to live in my house in my neighborhood if I tried moving here today. My house is worth close to 4x what I paid for it. My paycheck did not quadruple.
10 years ago, when I told the kids at work "eff the fancy cars, buy a house" they all laughed and said they had time. Now they're crying.
As far as the preaching about buying in Innisfil etc and commuting, on a good day I have 20 mins door to door. If my kids need me, I'm there, no problem. And now my work is relocating. New time? 6 mins door to door. You can't put a price on that ish. Actually, you can. And in my hood, it's out of reach for a lot of people.

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If your choices are
1) living in toronto in some cramped apartment and not having a bad commute
2) having a bad commute but having your own detached house with a double garage

I'd take #2 every time
 
Lunatic said:
I lived in Cityplace for almost 10 years, sold last summer. Couldn't be happier to get out of there. In 10 years those buildings will be unaffordable as they are so poorly constructed the maintenance fees will be astronomical. I was in Apex, right on Front st. Thankfully it was well managed, but they are facing massive reno bills for things like windows that are all in need of replacement less than 15 years after the condo was built. They sued (and won) Concord dozens of time in the 10 years I was there for massive deficiencies and shady long term contracts and leases that Concord signed the condo up for before the board was established. Matrix next door was even worse. It was so bad that for two years no lender would wright a mortgage on a property there because of outstanding structural issues. I'm sure they are still up to their necks in the project to fix it.

The traffic issues and crowds were what finally drove us out though. If there was a game letting out we just couldn't get out of the driveway and it was non stop noise.
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but you are living downtown surrounded by 3 or 4 sporting stadiums alone therefore by default you will have endless traffic??
 
danp said:
Assuming the minimum down payment of 5%, you would need a 570k mortgage to buy a 600k house. That requires an income of about 98k/yr (assuming you have no other debt). Considering 98k is well above an average income, I wouldn't call 600k affordable.
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Those are bankers numbers. If you only have 30k saved up, you have no business looking for a detached home in the GTA. Even still, a working couple can afford it no problem.
 
danp said:
Assuming the minimum down payment of 5%, you would need a 570k mortgage to buy a 600k house. That requires an income of about 98k/yr (assuming you have no other debt). Considering 98k is well above an average income, I wouldn't call 600k affordable.
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I personally don't think 600k is affordable for the average Canadian family...without even looking at the actual mortgage payment, you will still need a good chunk of $ down for the DP...this alone prevents most first time buyers from entering the market. Considering that they have to pay rent, utilities, life, food, cars, etc it's difficult.

Don't get me wrong, I have zero sympathy for those that chose the BMW over the Honda/Hyundai whatever because it looks cool and they 'deserve it'.

My good family friend always ******* about not having enough money for everything, but when you point out that each year they take a vacation to Cuba, and then Poland...they look at you with a blank stare like 'so what? I'm allowed to enjoy the money I work for'...it's an argument you can't win.
 
danp said:
Assuming the minimum down payment of 5%, you would need a 570k mortgage to buy a 600k house. That requires an income of about 98k/yr (assuming you have no other debt). Considering 98k is well above an average income, I wouldn't call 600k affordable.
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Can you put 5% down on a 600K home? I thought they changed the rules...
And spending almost 6 times salary on a mortgage is retarded IMO.
 
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