Heater -- Working on bike over the winter | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Heater -- Working on bike over the winter

Mad Mike said:
Most people don't heat the garage unless they are working inside it. That means you want a heater that can raise the temperature quickly, radiator's don't work like that.

If you turned the heater off altogether I'll bet your garage would stay above zero this time of year. In January when the ground under and around your garage has lost it's summer heat, a 1500watt rad won't raise the temp more than a few degrees.

Electric construction heaters can deliver up to 4x the heat when called upon, this not only raises the room temperature faster, it will raise it higher, circulate it better, and hold it steadier when doors are opened and closed.

A well insulated 20x20x8 garage need about 4KW of heating available. If you want to properly size you heater, try this link. Use the sq' of your garage door, and slab on grade. Heat Loss Calculator
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Damn. Not unexpected but heat loss on my garage is close to 6kW for a 72 degree F differential. That is just to maintain, more heat would be needed to increase temperature. With a 40 F differential, 3.2 kW is required to maintain. Oh well, I'm happy just heating while I am out there. Most of the time, the warmish breeze from the heater will be enough to make it bearable.
 
Trials said:
... then eventually you will wear all that stuff out,
get fed up with all the condensation you are creating every time you let it get cold again,
and then you will pour that heated garage floor and say omg :/ why didn't I do this years ago.
Click to expand...
I debated a heated slab when I built my garage, didn't do it because of cost.

A 6KW forced air heater cost $200 + another $100 in electrical. Total cost $300.

A simple PEX glycol install increased cost about $7K. Here's what goes into a 30x30 slab:

$900 for 2" under slab insulation
$1500 upcharge for fiberglass reinforcing fibers and extra 6 yds of concrete
$1000 for mesh and rebar
$1500 for PEX and fittings
$1000 extra for concrete placement
$1100 for a basic electric hydronic system -- boiler ($500), pump ($250), controls and plumbing parts & glycol ($250) and $100 electrical.

That was me doing all the labour except placing and finishing the slab - I don't think you could shave costs any more than I did -- I really wanted the comfort!
 
Mad Mike said:
I debated a heated slab when I built my garage, didn't do it because of cost.

A 6KW forced air heater cost $200 + another $100 in electrical. Total cost $300.

A simple PEX glycol install increased cost about $7K. Here's what goes into a 30x30 slab:

$900 for 2" under slab insulation
$1500 upcharge for fiberglass reinforcing fibers and extra 6 yds of concrete
$1000 for mesh and rebar
$1500 for PEX and fittings
$1000 extra for concrete placement
$1100 for a basic electric hydronic system -- boiler ($500), pump ($250), controls and plumbing parts & glycol ($250) and $100 electrical.

That was me doing all the labour except placing and finishing the slab - I don't think you could shave costs any more than I did -- I really wanted the comfort!
Click to expand...
If you just wanted underslab insulation, do any of the other costs have to be part of the project too (eg. do you need to add more mesh/rebar/fibreglass/slab thickness once on foam)?
 
GreyGhost said:
If you just wanted underslab insulation, do any of the other costs have to be part of the project too (eg. do you need to add more mesh/rebar/fibreglass/slab thickness once on foam)?
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Under slab insulation requires no changes to the concrete, placing or finishing - the only incremental cost is the insulation.

When you install PEX, your slab goes from 4" to 6", plus you need fiber re-reinforced concrete, mesh or rebar. Concrete placement is also more difficult because it's placed with 5 gallon buckets instead of wheelbarrows.
 
We used a pump.
Foam is under everything, all kinds of rebar, my wife did most of the rebar.
 
Trials said:
We used a pump.
Foam is under everything, all kinds of rebar, my wife did most of the rebar.
Click to expand...
My 30x30 slab was too small, 5 years back the minimum callout for a pumper in the GTA was $1500.
 
GreyGhost said:
There's a simple solution to that. Build a bigger shop :)
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You got me thinking... bigger garage means I'd have room for more motorcycles and other toys!
 
I forgot about space for more tools. Maybe 2 buildings?
 
about 1000 square feet works nice.
 
Looking to heat my attached, drywalled, fairly well insulated double garage. I see most people here use a 5000w or so electric heater. I'm debating between that and a gas heater like the link below. I'd go with the 30K btu unit as I think the 45K would be overkill.

Residential Hot Dawg® Series

Modine’s Hot Dawg® garage heater keeps the chill out of your residential garage, workspace, or outbuilding.
www.modinehvac.com www.modinehvac.com

I would either have to run 240 or a gas line up from the basement which is directly behind where I would put the heater. So, not much difference in the install other than adding a vent for the gasser.

Is there a reason most people stick with electric other than the lower up front cost?
 
KJM said:
Looking to heat my attached, drywalled, fairly well insulated double garage. I see most people here use a 5000w or so electric heater. I'm debating between that and a gas heater like the link below. I'd go with the 30K btu unit as I think the 45K would be overkill.

Residential Hot Dawg® Series

Modine’s Hot Dawg® garage heater keeps the chill out of your residential garage, workspace, or outbuilding.
www.modinehvac.com www.modinehvac.com

I would either have to run 240 or a gas line up from the basement which is directly behind where I would put the heater. So, not much difference in the install other than adding a vent for the gasser.

Is there a reason most people stick with electric other than the lower up front cost?
Click to expand...
Huge cost difference up front. If you are only occasionally heating it, it is hard for gas savings to ever get you back to break even. If you are keeping it hot most of the time, go gas.

I put in a 6kW electric using some copper I had around so my total cost was <$200 for a breaker and the heater. Gas would be about an order of magnitude more by the time I bought the heater, ran a gas line and vented it. It costs me about an $1 an hour when it's on but I only have it on if I am going to be working in the garage for at least a few hours so $5 for comfort works for me.

I was going to go hydronic as the hot water tank has tons of capacity and provides the fittings for it but the costs were going to add up quickly. You can only run potable water through the water heater loop so you either have to keep the heater circulating all the time or include another heat exchanger to isolate a glycol loop. The simplest setup is one pump, some piping with expansion tank and and a water to air exchanger in the garage. If you need the isolated loop, add another pump, a heat exchanger and another expansion tank.
 
GreyGhost said:
Huge cost difference up front. If you are only occasionally heating it, it is hard for gas savings to ever get you back to break even. If you are keeping it hot most of the time, go gas.

I put in a 6kW electric using some copper I had around so my total cost was <$200 for a breaker and the heater. Gas would be about an order of magnitude more by the time I bought the heater, ran a gas line and vented it. It costs me about an $1 an hour when it's on but I only have it on if I am going to be working in the garage for at least a few hours so $5 for comfort works for me.

I was going to go hydronic as the hot water tank has tons of capacity and provides the fittings for it but the costs were going to add up quickly. You can only run potable water through the water heater loop so you either have to keep the heater circulating all the time or include another heat exchanger to isolate a glycol loop. The simplest setup is one pump, some piping with expansion tank and and a water to air exchanger in the garage. If you need the isolated loop, add another pump, a heat exchanger and another expansion tank.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I had hydronic heating in a previous house and it worked quite well. Thought about it for the garage but unfortunately my water tank doesn't have the capacity.

I figure electric heat would be around $200-300 all installed and that gas heater is probably about $1000-1200 all in. Not a *huge* difference and I do plan on staying here for years. My current thinking is to put an electric in there this winter because it's dead simple. I can see how I like it. If I switch next year at least I will have 220 in the garage.
 
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