Has Carousel for the poor arrived?

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They pay property tax and sales tax on goods bought , ask him again about income tax .

A few on ODSP work service industry jobs , cash tips aren’t reported.

Still not trading places with either .


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crankcall said:
They pay property tax and sales tax on goods bought , ask him again about income tax .

A few on ODSP work service industry jobs , cash tips aren’t reported.

Still not trading places with either .


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With a $200 a month limit, the hours you could work were pretty limited before they started clawing back.
 
Sort of ridiculous how limited it was , i have an aquaintance that’s bartending and on ODP program , she makes more per hour than the pension pays , but can only physically work x hours because of her disability, but the cash tips really help her out .


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GreyGhost said:
Interesting development. Old policy was for every dollar of monthly income over $200, 50 cents would be clawed back. New policy is for every dollar over $1000 of monthly income, 25 cents gets clawed back. Seems like a decent policy to allow those that can work to work and improve their lives. They are predicting less than 10% of ODSP recipients will take advantage of program.

The shocking part to me was almost 500,000 people in Ontario on ODSP. wtf. Needs to be a serious audit and clean up that list. That's 3% of the population. Seems high. Of those, it looks like only 25,000 were reporting monthly employment income over $200. Seems awfully low.

I didn't look at the published program costs but with 500K people at $1,227 a month, that is ~$7.3B a year for ODSP. Libs/NDP/Green all promised to double it if elected. I agree that $1,227 a month sucks, but I doubt any of them considered where to come up with another $7.3B a year. It's easy to make promises when you don't need to pay the bills.

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How do the claw backs cover cash under the table income? An aunt paid a pittance in subsidized rent because anytine her bank account went over a few hundred dollars she gave the excess to her daughter to put in an account under the daughter's name. If she wanted a new TV the daughter bought it out of the account etc.
 
nobbie48 said:
How do the claw backs cover cash under the table income? An aunt paid a pittance in subsidized rent because anytine her bank account went over a few hundred dollars she gave the excess to her daughter to put in an account under the daughter's name. If she wanted a new TV the daughter bought it out of the account etc.
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Cash under the table obviously can't be tracked unless they are stupid. Wash too much money through your bank while on odsp and I hope they kick you in the nuts.
 
My two cents, its not the housing that is unaffordable, its the land, and property tax that has gone crazy.
The lack of good paying jobs that people want to do. The hard work to maintain a property that isn't yours.
However, solutions to a chemical free house might be the 3d printed housing with hydronic heating and a hypoallergenic seal from the components. (testing in Texas right now)
Help boomers to heaven (just kidding)
Open up more access to land.
Bring down property tax, since they squander most of it anyway.
Start educating our kids to the realities of life in this current age of wealth inequality.
Teach a person to hunt and fish and they will never go hungry.
Teach a person to build and they will never be without shelter.
To sum up, there are always solution for the motivated and creative people in our society that actually want to do something about their situation and not just complain with their hand out.
My two cents. (Disclaimer, sorry if i offended anyone, was not my intention :))
 
chingo said:
My two cents, its not the housing that is unaffordable, its the land, and property tax that has gone crazy.
The lack of good paying jobs that people want to do. The hard work to maintain a property that isn't yours.
However, solutions to a chemical free house might be the 3d printed housing with hydronic heating and a hypoallergenic seal from the components. (testing in Texas right now)
Help boomers to heaven (just kidding)
Open up more access to land.
Bring down property tax, since they squander most of it anyway.
Start educating our kids to the realities of life in this current age of wealth inequality.
Teach a person to hunt and fish and they will never go hungry.
Teach a person to build and they will never be without shelter.
To sum up, there are always solution for the motivated and creative people in our society that actually want to do something about their situation and not just complain with their hand out.
My two cents. (Disclaimer, sorry if i offended anyone, was not my intention :))
Click to expand...
The house I grew up in in the late 1960's was worth three years salary of a tradesman. Now it's 20 years income for a tradesman.

Taxes are a whole different thing. Taxes are up but a lot of things that were free are now pay to play.

Property tax shouldn't have a social component, schools etc, just reimbursement of what it costs to keep the streets and sewers in decent shape. The present general coffer is to easy to pilfer from.
 
when i talk about the cost of house that is without the land.
i had my tarion licence for a long time and most good tradesman i was associated with charged between $50 and $85 per hour,
which would translate to $100 K to 170K per year *20 is 2 mil to 3.4 mil, I'm sorry but it cost between 500K and 1 mil to build a house i sold for 1 to 2 mil 5 years ago. But if you want just a basic 1500 sq ft home you could do it for 200K plus land and it would still be a decent house, you provide the labour, friends, family etc... or you or wife work and the other builds, while living in a travel trailer, so many ways to do it.
 
chingo said:
when i talk about the cost of house that is without the land.
i had my tarion licence for a long time and most good tradesman i was associated with charged between $50 and $85 per hour,
which would translate to $100 K to 170K per year *20 is 2 mil to 3.4 mil, I'm sorry but it cost between 500K and 1 mil to build a house i sold for 1 to 2 mil 5 years ago. But if you want just a basic 1500 sq ft home you could do it for 200K plus land and it would still be a decent house, you provide the labour, friends, family etc... or you or wife work and the other builds, while living in a travel trailer, so many ways to do it.
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Good luck getting materials for a new build at $133/sq ft these days.

Hell, development charges on that house would in the ballpark of $70/sq ft. DC's are normally something like 15 years of property tax all due up front.

So many parts to the equation and any individual component (material, labour, land, municipal charges/permits, etc) is enough to push beyond the realm of "affordable" for most.
 
I agree with you about all of that.
But if the government, who controls a lot of land in Ontario, could make available $200,000 lots
Then a combo work from home ( in order to fulfil cost of land factor) and X days @ workplace
But the whole sticking point is cost of land.
You can build a liveable dwelling on $200,000 build cost (no other expense)
But as you point out, its all the other costs that make it difficult.
Also taking in to consideration that given your life circumstances and all that entails
Then you really have the basic equation extremely complicated.
This 3d house printing, might change the factor of modification to fit available lot.
It also fulfils a large number of factors given that 2 guys construct structure of house.
You finish anyway you want, even bare bones if that's what you choose.
Finish at your leisure. Pay as you go!
 
chingo said:
I agree with you about all of that.
But if the government, who controls a lot of land in Ontario, could make available $200,000 lots
Then a combo work from home ( in order to fulfil cost of land factor) and X days @ workplace
But the whole sticking point is cost of land.
You can build a liveable dwelling on $200,000 build cost (no other expense)
But as you point out, its all the other costs that make it difficult.
Also taking in to consideration that given your life circumstances and all that entails
Then you really have the basic equation extremely complicated.
This 3d house printing, might change the factor of modification to fit available lot.
It also fulfils a large number of factors given that 2 guys construct structure of house.
You finish anyway you want, even bare bones if that's what you choose.
Finish at your leisure. Pay as you go!
Click to expand...
They aren't building any more land so selling lots off cheap is unsustainable.

Not everyone can WFH

Theoretically park a used trailer ($10,000) on the lot while you build. That won't fly in any municipality I know of. Same goes for container homes.

It sounds great to scratch build a place, living in it as soon as it's closed in. The logistics don't work if it takes more than a few months. It gets tiring to work 40 hours a week and then add another 40 building.

The rough enclosure sounds great to live in, like camping. However the exterior needs to be protected so siding or whatever is needed to protect the investment. Last I checked an occupancy permit could be granted when the place was ready for baseboards.

Inside, plumbing, vents, electrical all have to be put in before insulation, vapour barrier and drywall go in. Then there are the kitchen necessities like counter tops.

Often the young person doesn't have the experience to do the job and an older one doesn't have the energy.
 
nobbie48 said:
They aren't building any more land so selling lots off cheap is unsustainable.

Not everyone can WFH

Theoretically park a used trailer ($10,000) on the lot while you build. That won't fly in any municipality I know of. Same goes for container homes.

It sounds great to scratch build a place, living in it as soon as it's closed in. The logistics don't work if it takes more than a few months. It gets tiring to work 40 hours a week and then add another 40 building.

The rough enclosure sounds great to live in, like camping. However the exterior needs to be protected so siding or whatever is needed to protect the investment. Last I checked an occupancy permit could be granted when the place was ready for baseboards.

Inside, plumbing, vents, electrical all have to be put in before insulation, vapour barrier and drywall go in. Then there are the kitchen necessities like counter tops.

Often the young person doesn't have the experience to do the job and an older one doesn't have the energy.
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The bar for occupancy permit can be shockingly low. Some builders use the loophole all the time. You need A functioning sink but it could be in a bathroom and plywood countertops, a fridge and a hot plate are good enough for a kitchen.
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