A scary part on large object is "Subscribing" to a parking spot. Few urban homes have parking spots and the big yachty toys are expensive to trailer. Add a couple of grand a year for land storage, lots more in the water. Maintenance is a big tab and DIY isn't always an option.
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H-D Sales Numbers
- Thread starter TK4
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I was trying to find dinghy storage for the tornado near barrie. I couldn't. Not a lot of places had space (and it was expensive as it needed a few hundred sq ft) and one that did had a hydro wire above the path between storage and ramp that wasn't high enough to get the boat under. I was not stepping the mast every time I wanted to sail. Boat got sold. I miss that thing. My wife doesn't.
I bought a $5 Xerox Documenter colour laser from Value Village about 3 years ago. When I ran the diagnostics it has only ever printed a few hundred pages in its life, the toners were all still 3/4 full, and it hadn’t printed anything in 4-5 years according to the activity log, so it probably was in storage somewhere and donated when someone died perhaps.
It works to this day like an absolute charm and prints amazing stuff honestly, including photos. Toner carts are also dirt cheap since it’s a 10+ year old model.
I like my cars and RV’s and Powersports toys the same - pre owned, but in good shape, and with someone else having ate all the depreciation.
Priller
Well-known member
That would be us. When I was pricing it out, outdoor storage on a 25' trailer could be had for as little as $50/mo unsecured and $100-150/mo secured. Assuming secured, works out to $1400-2000/yr. Add $4-600/yr insurance, and just possessing the thing costs $2500/yr. Maintenance is never ending as they are all built like garbage, but from what I've seen is mostly accessible for DIY, and the parts are WAY cheaper than boats. Beyond that, it's tires, appliances (they don't last long) and batteries as consumables, and a twice annual seal of the roof.
Even buying with cash and amortising out over ten years, it's a crazy bad investment compared to renting. Assuming $2500/yr for base ownership, $3000/yr for maintenance, and amortising a ~$30,000 trailer (plus tax) over 10 years at ~$3,400/yr, the total cost is $8,900/yr. Our absolute best case would be to use it 30 nights per year (20 is more realistic), which works out to almost $300/night.
In other words, renting, even at $200/night for a few longish weekends a year and one weeklong plus trip is still WAY cheaper than owning, and with much less risk. The only thing drawing us to buying is being able to have the exact trailer that fits us, and the convenience of being able to hook up and go, rather than packing linens, pillows, etc. Is that convenience worth $3000+/yr? Right now, absolutely not. But it might be, going forward, if we end up going a lot.
(Just don't make me do the math on my true hourly operating cost of my bike, at least not in front of my wife. At least I didn't finance a $55k HD...)
Call some construction contacts and ask for pricing on office trailers. Home is what you make it. Should be far cheaper and less likely to have hidden issues. Modern travel trailers are like flip houses. Pretty finishes hiding the horror underneath.
Build quality sucks. Goggle delamination.
We sold our 26 footer cruiser for the same reasons you listed. It would be cheaper to hotel the same number of weekends and get a variety of locations. That said, hotel rates have exploded recently and restaurant meals are up there too.
For any distance and anything less than two or three nights, it almost always makes more sense to just hotel and eat out vs paying gas to haul an RV somewhere, however the math starts to change for shorter distances or longer duration trips, especially if there are more than a few people along for the trip – a family of four eating out three times a day can get darn expensive, having your kitchen behind you can save a lot of money there alone.
As for build quality, pretty much all the mainstream boxes on wheels are built like total trash and should be valued at less than half of what they seem to command, however there are still some quality RVs out there….but they are not cheap.
We own a Helio now - really only good for two but insanely well built and will still be around in 30-40+ years. There’s also bigger options out there that are built good like Casita and other fibreglass clamshells, and I’m hearing good things about Brinkley in the 5th wheel category. But again, not cheap, and people seem to want cheap vs good anymore.
Gaoler
Well-known member
Slightly off topic, but... I recently noticed that the price on a new FJR1300 is the same as it was in 2016.
So I guess the price on the greatest sport-tourer ever built has actually dropped considerably given inflation and all the other forces at work to increase the cost of consumer goods.
So I guess the price on the greatest sport-tourer ever built has actually dropped considerably given inflation and all the other forces at work to increase the cost of consumer goods.
Is it not still effectively the exact same bike as well though?
I think that the Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager has seen the same sort of effect, however given as how they have been making the same bike virtually unchanged from basically 2010, I guess at this point things are on cruise control and they’ve been able to Keep their costs in check.
Gaoler
Well-known member
Well, once you've reached peak perfection...
I wouldn’t disagree. Great bike. But eventually it’ll get stale - I know the Kawi Vulcan Voyager has fell prey to this, but I guess it’s still selling, so
Gaoler
Well-known member
I wouldn’t disagree. Great bike. But eventually it’ll get stale
Well, they brought the KLR back to life after discontinuing it...
Sometimes stale is good... Lol
The ongoing KLR thread right now might suggest otherwise. 
Priller
Well-known member
More derail! Apologies all...
More importantly, I have spent way too many hours, days, weeks and months in the bloody things smelling BO, fish lunches, farts and other horrors, and so have zero desire to spent another minute in one if I can avoid it.
And you're right about hotels, but holy smokes have they gotten expensive over the past few years. The reality for us though, is that a huge part of the appeal is staying somewhere in the woods. Our preference is electrified provincial park sites for the balance of wilderness and comfort.
I'm sort of on the fence here. There seems to be two tiers of RV construction, the budget stuff built by the big makers (anything Thor, Winnebago, etc.) and then the higher end stuff with better build quality, like Lance, Intech, and all the fibreglass builders. But I think on a base level, the actual construction methods and materials used by the cheaper guys aren't inherently flawed (at least for the Azdel units mentioned above - the tin ones are a disaster waiting to happen), as there's only so many ways to keep a trailer light and cheap. The issue I have with the industry is that their QC is so terrible. How does a trailer where the shower drain isn't connected get out of the factory? Or where the screws don't line up with the frame so the roof flies off on the first windy day?
That said, if you get an okay one, and accept that things will need fixed on a regular basis, they're not that bad. I'm not convinced spending more than double on something like a Lance is actually better value, as they have similar inherent construction issues. Most of them are so simple that most bits are modular, and doing repairs is easier than home DIY. As long as the walls are fibreglass and the frame is aluminum, you can always replace the bits that need it.
The real exception is the the fibreglass clamshell units you mention that last forever. But they also cost 3-4 times as much, and dropping $100k plus on a smallish travel trailer starts to make the math in my post above look really kooky...
While I admire the thought, the reality is that keeping something liveable for a couple and two dogs and is also towable under 5000 lbs just doesn't line up with construction trailers. They're much more solidly built, but definitely not cheaper, and definitely definitely not lighter.
More importantly, I have spent way too many hours, days, weeks and months in the bloody things smelling BO, fish lunches, farts and other horrors, and so have zero desire to spent another minute in one if I can avoid it.
100% with you on the build quality, though apparently the newer ones with Azdel or similar go a long way to minimising the delamination issues. They still have horrible plumbing with improper fittings, leaky roofs, thermofoil counters that swell when shown a picture of water, appliances that last about a year before blowing up, China Bomb tires, and on and on...
And you're right about hotels, but holy smokes have they gotten expensive over the past few years. The reality for us though, is that a huge part of the appeal is staying somewhere in the woods. Our preference is electrified provincial park sites for the balance of wilderness and comfort.
I'm sort of on the fence here. There seems to be two tiers of RV construction, the budget stuff built by the big makers (anything Thor, Winnebago, etc.) and then the higher end stuff with better build quality, like Lance, Intech, and all the fibreglass builders. But I think on a base level, the actual construction methods and materials used by the cheaper guys aren't inherently flawed (at least for the Azdel units mentioned above - the tin ones are a disaster waiting to happen), as there's only so many ways to keep a trailer light and cheap. The issue I have with the industry is that their QC is so terrible. How does a trailer where the shower drain isn't connected get out of the factory? Or where the screws don't line up with the frame so the roof flies off on the first windy day?
That said, if you get an okay one, and accept that things will need fixed on a regular basis, they're not that bad. I'm not convinced spending more than double on something like a Lance is actually better value, as they have similar inherent construction issues. Most of them are so simple that most bits are modular, and doing repairs is easier than home DIY. As long as the walls are fibreglass and the frame is aluminum, you can always replace the bits that need it.
The real exception is the the fibreglass clamshell units you mention that last forever. But they also cost 3-4 times as much, and dropping $100k plus on a smallish travel trailer starts to make the math in my post above look really kooky...
There is a debt relief commercial I see on US TV. The dude looks like a stereotypical "hipster" HD owner and his message is after the debt relief he has more time to ride his motorcycle and then they show him on a big cruiser (can't see the brand but my guess...). Every time I see the commercial I can't help but think, well I see your problem.
I know than a few people that ended up in huge debt (including bankruptcy) problems because they had to have a NEW Harley and other YOLO choices.
I know than a few people that ended up in huge debt (including bankruptcy) problems because they had to have a NEW Harley and other YOLO choices.
I prefer the aluminum siding ones no delamination easy to fix ours is getting old. made in 2006 when I bought it new and no issues really ever I will probably sell it in the spring though as it doesn't get much use since we bought the class B
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The factories pay poorly, so they get crappy people working there who really don't give 2 ***** about what they push out the door quality wise as long as their cheque clears every 2 weeks and their supervisor doesn't notice (or care) that the crap they'll sending to the dealers is half broken from the onset.
The RV industry is basically the epitome of putting lipstick on pigs, over and over and over again - all flash, but with nightmares hidden behind that lipstick.
As for spending $100k on a *good* quality RV, is it really too much if it's a long term investment? If you had a choice of buying a house made of particle board and 1x1's instead of 2x4's and plywood, would you consider it a wise long term investment vs buying something cheap that's going to be uninhabitable in 10-15 years?
A new Helio o2, using our trailer for example, is around $35K. Some people consider that an insane amount of money for an RV that size, but when you compare it against a lot of other microtrailers built by the "big box" manufacturers in the $25-$28K range (RV's that are going to start rotting away and/or falling apart inside the first few years of ownership), is it really a bad investment? Especially when the quality RV holds it's value and the mainstream big box depreciates like a rock the second you haul it over the dealerships curb?
Lets take a look at 50 year old RV's for sale out there. If you can even find a classic "Big Box" unit that hasn't rotted to the ground (or is in the process of doing so) this is often what you're looking at.
Asking $2400, realistically worth *maybe* $1000, full of silicone, has clearly leaked and been repaired already, "remodelled".
Now, look at 50 year old fibreglass clamshells and you find thing like this. Pretty much all original, and still in perfectly functional condition and regular use. Asking $10K, and a good serviceable Boler or Trillium are regularly selling for in that range.
What one was the better purchase originally?
This thread is where? said a klr guy....The ongoing KLR thread right now might suggest otherwise.
KTM's in trouble ?
https://superbikeplanet.com/story/1270/hey-what-s-a-quick-way-we-can-save-30-million-ktm-s-stock-price-loses-75-of-value
www.gtamotorcycle.com
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