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H-D Sales Numbers
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
The brand is holding on to old roots…and those old roots are dying off as they don’t have that many options that appeal to the younger and next generation of buyers.
HD more than the other manufacturers lives and dies on bikes on credit. Have an extra $200/mo, we have a bike for that.
High rates put a hurting on that game. They don't even tell you monthly payments online anymore, you enter your name and phone number and they call you.. running the numbers myself, a stock road glide is $650 a month for seven years and over $55,000 by the time you are done paying. Ouch.
High rates put a hurting on that game. They don't even tell you monthly payments online anymore, you enter your name and phone number and they call you.. running the numbers myself, a stock road glide is $650 a month for seven years and over $55,000 by the time you are done paying. Ouch.
Manufacturers have gone from monthly payments, to biweekly, to weekly, and I’ve seen daily comparisons to a cup of coffee…
Then we went 48-60-72-84-96 month financing. All in the illusion of ‘affordability’.
I’ve not seen them cross the 108 month threshold … yet.
TK4
Well-known member
"Pennies a day Waldo, pennies a day..."
TK4
Well-known member
The stockholders have been propping up H-D for a while now, how long until they get tired of it ?
Recently heard and ad were it was only the cost of one "fancy" coffee a day.
Yup...damn that Greg Carrasco...it's his voice in my head now. 'Only the cost of a fancy coffee per day and you can have a Nissan!'
Yeah....I'll take my 9 year old Tacoma AND the fancy coffee instead.
Priller
Well-known member
Much as I'd love to have a good old-fashioned HD gloat, I don't see anything here that looks too catastrophic for HD in particular. Rather numbers that reflect trends across all industries selling expensive recreational toys. The only number that's really dropped in a meaningful way YOY is Q3 2024 shipments, which suggests a company responding quickly to softening demand. Sort of the opposite to KTM with their overflowing inventory yards. I get that the lack of growth is a concern in a capitalist world obsessed with growth, but those are relatively big sales numbers and very steady. (Except Livewire, that's been a catastrophe, but that's exactly the kind of thing many folks wanted them to do vs selling the same porky cruisers to the BDSM pirate dentist set.)
Now, like all the companies involved, the real question will be who can weather the storm, and who can recapture the market when things bounce back. The Japanese brands got through the 2008 crunch okay, but their sales of big bikes took ages to come back afterwards.
As for propping sales up with credit, we went to the fall RV show recently, and pretty much everyone's display focused on ~3.99% rates and the bi-weekly payment (that they neglect to mention is spread over 15 years, meaning you buy the RV twice)...
Now, like all the companies involved, the real question will be who can weather the storm, and who can recapture the market when things bounce back. The Japanese brands got through the 2008 crunch okay, but their sales of big bikes took ages to come back afterwards.
As for propping sales up with credit, we went to the fall RV show recently, and pretty much everyone's display focused on ~3.99% rates and the bi-weekly payment (that they neglect to mention is spread over 15 years, meaning you buy the RV twice)...
Please correct me if I'm wrong...but I recall somewhere that RVs and boats are typically low % financing for the first little while, and then they change over to a variable rate? Not sure where I recall reading this (possibly here by @PrivatePilot but I can't recall).
Personally I’ve never heard of a loan that has changing terms so far as the interest rate, my current bike is financed and the rate is consistent throughout the term, although now that interest rates are dropping and my line of credit is nearing zero balance again (just about paid off some home renovations), I will be shortly transferring the loan at ~9% through Scotia to the LOC at notably less % now. And since variable interest rates only have one way to go at this point, that decision will make even more sense in the months ahead.
There are going to be a lot of people who bought toys in the last few years in the high interest rate environment who may not have the same personal financial flexibility to do this however and will be stuck paying very high rates for the duration of their term despite prime dropping, and continuing to for probably the next year.
According to a recent YouTube video on subscriptions the average household coughs up $300 per month.
It is far better for the companies if they have a steady income stream rather than the python like huge meal and nothing for years.
Tesla's self drive is over $100 a month. Push back seems to be stopping the heated seat rent.
Apparently HP's ink cartridge automatic replacement is a cash cow.
I have an HP colour laser for work. It's fine. IIRC, I could subscribe to subscription crap but I didn't for obvious reasons. On the downside, the last batch of toner I bought was over $1000. Cough.
I have a cheapo BROTHER laser printer...it's been working great and Amazon has the cartridges for $50-80 for 2.
Priller
Well-known member
To be honest, I have never looked particularly deeply into how financing works on RV's. The thought of buying a massively depreciating asset (value plummets so fast they make German luxury cars look like a good investment) that way seems like such a bad idea that I've never done much but laugh to myself when offered.
One thing I do know is that the same dealership that pestered us with 8.99% financing offers while wandering the lot in the summer was advertising 3.99% at the show. Not sure if the 3.99% is a bit like the 0% financing some automakers used to advertise but somehow nobody qualified, but I suspect it's more a sign of desperation with the manufacturers trying to prop up sagging sales. A 55% drop in rates over three months seems like a heck of a change...
TK4
Well-known member
Speaking of subscriptions, how is KTM doing with theirs ?
What were they trying to sell as subscription?
I am slightly surprised that no brand has tried something like leasing for bikes. Similar to subscription, lets you get a new KTM every couple years. The numbers are probably awful so nobody bothered offering it. Wouldn't work for HD as much of their profit comes from "custom" parts like branded bolts. You can't be customizing leases.
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