Mad Mike
Well-known member
Is it still spaghetti? I thought they changed over to Weiner Schnitzel.
H-D, blah, blah, blah...
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
There is a god!
Pre-2000 Harley-Davidson slogan: "Change and innovation bad! Heritage and history good!
HD-faithful: "F*ck yeah!"
Post-2000 Harley-Davidson slogan: "Change and innovation now good!"
HD-faithful: "F*ck you!"
Engineering-wise, they've come out with some great products in the last while, but all have died on the vine because of the customer base they've groomed into rejecting anything new. They've been trying for forever and a half now to change course, but the ship is just too heavy and the waters too thick.
Pan America had its novelty year and now is being overshadowed by The Next New Thing. I give it five years before it also goes the way of the V-Rod, LiveWire, Buell and other interesting projects that don't fit the 1940s Panhead mold they've permanently cast themselves into.
"We've ditched the past to make history"...
LOL... ooookey....
HD-faithful: "F*ck yeah!"
Post-2000 Harley-Davidson slogan: "Change and innovation now good!"
HD-faithful: "F*ck you!"
Engineering-wise, they've come out with some great products in the last while, but all have died on the vine because of the customer base they've groomed into rejecting anything new. They've been trying for forever and a half now to change course, but the ship is just too heavy and the waters too thick.
Pan America had its novelty year and now is being overshadowed by The Next New Thing. I give it five years before it also goes the way of the V-Rod, LiveWire, Buell and other interesting projects that don't fit the 1940s Panhead mold they've permanently cast themselves into.
"We've ditched the past to make history"...
LOL... ooookey....
TK4
Well-known member
The Pan America, while a nice platform, has seemed to have its fair share of teething problems.
Why they ditched the 750 Street Rod when it finally started to look like it wasn't a 1984 Honda Shadow beats the heck outta me.
Take care of the shareholders, sell more t-shirts, chrome doodaws and lifestyle paraphenalia - doesn't seem like much of a long term marketing plan to me.
I know a couple of Pan Am owners, actually, now EX-Pan Am owners.
They're the sort of people that always have to get the next new shiny thing - nothing wrong with that at all, though.
One guy got into a Desert X, the other guy got the refreshed 890 ADVR. They'll be into different bikes next year, whatever the Internet is hyping up next.
Secondary market will be rife with used Pan Ams in the next couple of years. That is, if they actually sold in the numbers that HD claimed they did - which is now under heavy dispute... Lots of NOS Pan Ams in the dealerships out here that they're trying to blow out the door, which leads me to believe they were stuffing the channel to pump up the sales numbers.
Certain models are destined to be flash-in-the-pans. Takes a lot more than a big fat marketing budget to develop a model with staying power.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Armchair quarterback tosses a touchdown!
That's been part of the core HD plan for more than 50 years... seems to have some legs...
I remember having dinner with a Ford marketing exec a few years ago. He had a lot of respect for their brand marketing... I'll never forget him grinding his teeth while telling me they paid HOG $2000/truck to put Harleys name on an F150.
Fixt for thread relevance.
cvcb
Well-known member
That's actually a problem...
bigpoppa
Well-known member
On some level I admire companies that take risks, it could be a big hit, or they might air ball it.
(Livewire, Panam etc)
I have also noticed more often than not, their sales people tend to be uninformed about their own products, not inspiring the greatest confidence in me
Exhibit A:
Few years back I went through a @mimico_polak sportster phase. Went into Pfaff and asked if bike x had a 5 or 6 speed transmission (sales guy didnt know and gave me the wrong answer)
Exhibit B:
Was picking up the KTM, and waltzed into the HD dealer next door, asked the friendly sales guy if they had any low rider S or ST models in stock just to take a look at(demo'd them a few years ago, and actually liked them), he thinks for a second, runs around the showroom floor, comes back and says nope.
I do a quick walk around for 2 seconds, and find one parked right in the middle...
Overall I think fortnine was right, HD invested so many eggs in one basket, that they alienated all the eggs in all the other baskets. The old basket hates everything new they try to do. And all the eggs in new baskets arent feeling them either.
(Livewire, Panam etc)
I have also noticed more often than not, their sales people tend to be uninformed about their own products, not inspiring the greatest confidence in me
Exhibit A:
Few years back I went through a @mimico_polak sportster phase. Went into Pfaff and asked if bike x had a 5 or 6 speed transmission (sales guy didnt know and gave me the wrong answer)
Exhibit B:
Was picking up the KTM, and waltzed into the HD dealer next door, asked the friendly sales guy if they had any low rider S or ST models in stock just to take a look at(demo'd them a few years ago, and actually liked them), he thinks for a second, runs around the showroom floor, comes back and says nope.
I do a quick walk around for 2 seconds, and find one parked right in the middle...
Overall I think fortnine was right, HD invested so many eggs in one basket, that they alienated all the eggs in all the other baskets. The old basket hates everything new they try to do. And all the eggs in new baskets arent feeling them either.
TK4
Well-known member
That's the problem with legacy brands in general and HD in particular: they've put ALL their eggs into ONE basket, then along the way encourage their eggs(customers) to not just reject other brands or styles of bikes but to denigrate them as "jap scrap" or "not a real" motorcycle. When I had my K100rs I also heard the term "Kraut-sicle". You reap what you sow. If you're going to tell everyone that you're an exclusive club, don't be surprised when a sizable portion of your prospective market says, "Fine. No thanks."
As the boomers age out and their customer base dies they have trouble filling the pipe with new ones because the cache of the brand is generational and Sons of Anarchy is a few years in the rearview. The quantity of riders for whom HD is an aspirational bit of personal branding is smaller than it was 10 years ago and will continue to decline I think judging by the 30 something nephews I have that ride.
I think the shoe salesman is in for a surprise when his lifestyle brand doesn't translate into leisure wear sales on a grand scale.
Harley-Davidson® IRONe Electric Balance Bike | Southside Harley
The IRONe is the first electric-powered balance bike designed for kids who want to experience the freedom of riding a motorcycle just like mom and dad.
southsideharley.com
Great product. My local dealer had a demo day for the Staycyc. Took my 3 grandkids and let them go crazy for a while. Left with a truckload. Good promo.
View attachment 62078
Harley-Davidson® IRONe Electric Balance Bike | Southside Harley
The IRONe is the first electric-powered balance bike designed for kids who want to experience the freedom of riding a motorcycle just like mom and dad.
I predicted the Pan-Am would be around a few years and then trashed by HD due to low sales.
God help the people who keep them or buy used ones as dealer servicing for QA and inherent design issues will be hard to come by IMO.
TK4
Well-known member
Don't forget Suzuki's Bold New Graphics ?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Suzuki has some pioneering in bold new colours and graphics! Look back at how many they inspired:
- Early TSRs and RMs introduced vivid graphics to dualsport and dirt bikes -- before those wild graphics were fat pinstripes.
- Hayabusas played a big role in introducing print graphics to sportbikes.
- Late 80's DR750 colors (orange, white and blue) were copied by KTM, and remain their signature colors today.
