H-D, blah, blah, blah...
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
I have no real issue with HD. I think they are overpriced and underpowered but that has been their thing for decades and they have survived so obviously others feel differently.
As for this particular video, it was as expected, drum banging and feelings.
"freedom of expression of our riders" barf. You and most of your riders want HD branding on as many things as possible. That's more sheep than freedom imo.
Paraphrased "The apparel business is way under-leveraged and our path to growth." Ah, there's the key. Hire the Puma CEO to grow HD as an apparel brand. Continue making bikes to be the halo products propping up the apparel. That makes more sense now. Bikes need to be big, loud and flashy but don't need to be powerful or reliable or compete with their wheeled competition.
I want you all to notice the CEO of a motorcycle company did this 14 minute ADVERTISEMENT for a motorcycle company, but not once did he talk about their motorcycles. He speaks of "brand" (a LOT), he speaks of "core business", he speaks of "image" and "experience".
All the time sitting there with an EVO motor on display in front of him.
I would like to ask him what he is going to do with those that buy into the Harley "brand" and "experience", the folks that are the companies "core business"... that want the EVO (or something VERY much like an EVO, a big air cooled twin), when he knows that motor is being legislated out of production.
I DO however take exception to their marketing strategy, which is the same as Apple computers... they're not selling motorcycles, they're selling the Harley "experience".
Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle.
Harley's steak is over cooked and burnt and leaves a fowl taste in my mouth. I find Harley and Apple's marketing insulting to my intelligence.
All the time sitting there with an EVO motor on display in front of him.
I would like to ask him what he is going to do with those that buy into the Harley "brand" and "experience", the folks that are the companies "core business"... that want the EVO (or something VERY much like an EVO, a big air cooled twin), when he knows that motor is being legislated out of production.
I got nothing against Harley motorcycles, I've owned two... NOTHING eats super slab like a Road King. NOTHING.
I DO however take exception to their marketing strategy, which is the same as Apple computers... they're not selling motorcycles, they're selling the Harley "experience".
Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle.
Harley's steak is over cooked and burnt and leaves a fowl taste in my mouth. I find Harley and Apple's marketing insulting to my intelligence.
You're not their target market. They want the sheep. The sheep will pay anything to belong. Then they'll pay even more to try to be unique within the group (merchandise, stages, branded bolts, etc).
This isn't to say that all people that ride HD are sheep. The sheep are the most profitable segment though so they are the ones that are catered to.
TK4
Well-known member
You don't know much about me do you ?
I don't dismiss the product, I dismiss the corporate bafflegab that this guy's spouting.
But that's exactly what he has been hired for. The board has made a decision. HD is an apparel company that happens to sell bikes. That's why it makes even more sense to kick out livewire. He kept talking about no viable path to profitability. That means no viable path to substantial branded apparel sales.
Sorta why I brought up Ducati. I AM Ducati's market. I have had at least one Duc in my garage since the late '70s, I have 4 today.
Ducati USED to sell easy to ride, PERFORMANCE motorcycles... I'm not sure what they sell today... but more importantly I don't think Ducati KNOWS what they're selling anymore. Seems they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.
In the thread about "bikes with character" I said I don't know what "character" in a motorcycle is. The cynic in me KNOWS that character is advertising copy.
You're correct, I don't. But all you did was post a video with a sarcastic title, so that was I could judge by. Hence my reply. I meant no disrespect.
I also agree with your comment(s).
As a HD rider, I enjoy the bike but I also enjoyed my Suzuki and my Honda and never once felt I had to wear any advertisements for any of them.
But HD like any other business counts on profits, I just hate when they try to spin it as something other than what it is..
I took a mini marketing course and there is a pattern that one follows to sell a product. It doesn't matter whether the product is motorcycles or hair spray. Some products are just easier to romanticize. (The image of freedom that doesn't include insurance issues, death tolls, financial outcomes etc.)
HD is a publicly traded company. The job of the CEO is to provide value to the shareholders. ($35.21 USD at the moment) They sell five dollar tee shirts for fifty-two. Performance models are seventy eight. You can print your own for a few bucks but pay a royalty.
A friend's father owned an auto dealership and over the years fluctuated between MB, Fiat, Ford and Toyota. He was in the business of making money. If he could have made more money selling baby carriages he'd be handing out business cards at maternity wards.
It's all blah, blah unless there is an interest in the base product. Should I make a video about the mangoes I bought at Costco. It'll be blah, blah, blah unless you really like mangoes.
FWIW I'm a Goldwing guy because I like touring. I had a Sportster but small tanks and wind buffeting don't suit cruising.
We could argue technical merits of various bikes but the common sense transportation winner would be a Civic owner.
I do admire how the big Harleys track on the highway. I don't know if it's chassis design, rider experience or both. Enjoy what you ride and let the Civic owner gloat over his travel efficiency.
Cool, I 100% support ride what you want. 50cc or 1500cc if you're enjoying yourself, that is all that matters.
Most likely the extended rake that contributes to straight-line stability... but also the same thing that gives it bad "cruiser-flop" on turn-in.
But on most models, pegs are mounted so low anyway that cornering performance was never the intention.
snort - drawing a misbegotten parallel between a failing motorcycle company and the most valuable and profitable company in the world !!!!???? with a market cap of 3 trillion dollars..... pardon my laughter .....you reallly should not talk about what you clearly no nothing about.
Found the Appleboi
Your protest kinda proves my point. There WAS a time that Apple made superior product. Hmmmm just like Harley. Now Apple is made with the same parts, in the same plants as everyone else.... just like Harley
What the difference, and what let Apple become so well profitable is MARKETING. Not good product, GOOD advertising.... just like Harley... and Ducati
I hope you see the parallel now. I think Appleboi's and the Harley faithful are cut from the same cloth. Keep drinkin' the koolaid.
... but what do I know... about MY opinion.
A lot of that comes from the crankshaft being mounted very low in the frame. A Harley big twin has a very low center of gravity.
But Harley's are also known to get the "death wobble" and Harley has successfully defended themselves in court, every time... many, many times. Harleys, at least they used to have, have a 1/2 offset of their wheels, the front and rear wheels don't track the same line, and everyone wants to blame that, but Harley has proven it isn't a problem. according to Harley it's all user error where the rider loads the bike improperly (watch the link I posted. see how the guy has a big back pack mounted high on the back rest? Not good for handling. Low center of gravity and a load up high like that makes for a great pendulum effect.). Harley say we buy big bikes, load them up with crap... and crash. Not their fault.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
That video was for me, a HOG shareholder.
I'll never likely own a Harley Davidson, that video tells me the CEO is looking at ways to increase my wealth -- I kinda like that.
I also own LuLu (Lululemon) stock, like HD I'll never likely own or use their products. Like HOG, LuLu sells sizzle not steak. -- I don't worry about either company's products, my interest is only shareholder joy.
