I got a ticket today for 10kmh over. It's a 40 dollar ticket with no points. I know that if I pay then it will be a conviction on my insurance record. The actual radar speed was different then what I was ticketed for. If I go to court will they have access to the original radar figures? I would imagine that disputing a 10 over is not difficult but I don't want end up getting the ticket revised to the actual radar figure.
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Got my first ticket... Have some question
- Thread starter _eug_
- Start date
MadPoet
Well-known member
Yes, if you look on the ticket, it will show R for reduced, meaning that if you take it to court you will be charged with the original speed. This reduced system ensures you pay the ticket and not take it to court, unless you are really not guilty and even then it is still your word against the officer's word.
Unless you a) have time, and b) don't mind risking a conviction with a demerit point or two, then just pay it and wait for it to go away in 3 years. I paid all of mine, and it never did anything to my insurance if that is your fear. I even changed companies twice.
MadPoet
Well-known member
I know some people will tell you to fight every ticket and hope for the cop not showing up, but now a days cops show up more and more ensuring revenue generation. If you got a big break then Just pay it and don't do it again. Keep your record clean and ride safely and responsibly. My last ticket was dropped yesterday and I am due for another one. I tend to get one every 3 years in July.
not really 'you will be' more of a 'you may be'
the oficer when he gives his evidence if you take it to court will say the actual speed and the jp has the option of raising it back up to that speed. its happening more nowadays as the courts are getting overbooked.
Here is something that was posted on another forum that that might work to keep the conviction off your record (but may be another one of those urban legends.) Maybe some other GTAM members can comment (esp. those in the legal system!)
Mail your payment in (by cheque), but overpay by a few bucks. This will cause them to issue a cheque to you for the overpayment. When you get it, throw this cheque away. The conviction will not show up on your record because the financial accounts will never be closed on this conviction.
Does this actually work in Ontario?
Mail your payment in (by cheque), but overpay by a few bucks. This will cause them to issue a cheque to you for the overpayment. When you get it, throw this cheque away. The conviction will not show up on your record because the financial accounts will never be closed on this conviction.
Does this actually work in Ontario?
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I ended up paying the ticket so I might as well give the details of what happaned.
I was going eastbound on Steeles ave W. Between Jane and Keele. I am not from that area so I was not aware that there is always a speed trap there. The road was empty so I was on the throttle going at a good pace. I was not even looking at the speedo so I was not aware that I was speeding. All of the sudden a police officer runs out right into my lane. First I thought that it was some idiot crossing the road who didnt see me. I hit the brakes and changed lanes, but when I got closer I realised that it was an officer.
When I pulled over the officer showed me the radar which had me clocked at 93 km/h in a 60 zone. He took my papers and went to his car. 5 min later he came and gave me a $40 ticket for 10 over. He really gave me a break thats for sure.
He also told me that he is a fellow rider and that if I want to speed then I should do it at night on the highway :cherry:
I was going eastbound on Steeles ave W. Between Jane and Keele. I am not from that area so I was not aware that there is always a speed trap there. The road was empty so I was on the throttle going at a good pace. I was not even looking at the speedo so I was not aware that I was speeding. All of the sudden a police officer runs out right into my lane. First I thought that it was some idiot crossing the road who didnt see me. I hit the brakes and changed lanes, but when I got closer I realised that it was an officer.
When I pulled over the officer showed me the radar which had me clocked at 93 km/h in a 60 zone. He took my papers and went to his car. 5 min later he came and gave me a $40 ticket for 10 over. He really gave me a break thats for sure.
He also told me that he is a fellow rider and that if I want to speed then I should do it at night on the highway :cherry:
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This is exactly the kind of mess that you can get yourself into when you receive bad advice. If you get another ticket in the next 3 years you better fight it tooth and nail. One conviction will probably mean nothing but any others will have you paying hundreds more a year.
Unless your ticket got dropped from the 50+ range, fight it every time!!! 1 over, 20 over, 40 over, it's all the same. The only difference is the amount and in most cases you pay more through insurance if you get convicted. Paying your ticket = getting convicted
Unless you're coming up to 9 demerits (possible suspension), for most of us demerits don't matter!!! Insurance companies don't look at them
Unless you like paying extra money to insurance companies, do not listen to MadPoet's smack masquerading as "advice"
P.S. Ike is dead wrong too
Unless your ticket got dropped from the 50+ range, fight it every time!!! 1 over, 20 over, 40 over, it's all the same. The only difference is the amount and in most cases you pay more through insurance if you get convicted. Paying your ticket = getting convicted
Unless you're coming up to 9 demerits (possible suspension), for most of us demerits don't matter!!! Insurance companies don't look at them
Unless you like paying extra money to insurance companies, do not listen to MadPoet's smack masquerading as "advice"
P.S. Ike is dead wrong too
Golluk
Well-known member
What, so you don't have a chance at seeing them until its really to late?
Yeah, I'd say at least go through the initial motions on every ticket. Request a trial, then request full disclosure (beyond their form). This can all be done with little fuss and mostly at your convenience. You still get to back up the speeding/minor infraction court, and you get to see if you stand at chance at fighting it. Then if the evidence is solid against you, just go in before trial and pay your ticket. Hell, you can wait for the court date and see if the officer shows up, pleading guilty if he is. They will only amend up if you plead not guilty.
MadPoet
Well-known member
What mess? It is just a ticket. Believe it or not the world doesn't end there.
The way i see it,
1) if you know you are guilty
2) if you get a break
3) if your charge can be upgraded to the original charge (33 over)
Then own up and pay up. 33 over is over twice as much as the fine the OP got plus demerits points so in my honest opinion, my "advice" is based on my "evaluation" to the risk, and in "MY" judgement, I do not think it is worth fighting this particular ticket.
This is not smack as you referred to nor bad advice, it is a risk assesment based again on "my" experiences with tickets , I fought some and paid some. Also why didn't your highness come a little earlier and tell him your "authentic" advice before he paid it?
Choose your battles my friend.
33 over is the same as 1 over and it's treated as a "minor offense" so don't try to peddle misinformation here. My information is based on actual insurance industry rating practices. As far as they are concerned, a driver who got nailed for 33 over once is safer than someone who got nailed for 1 (yes, 1, one) over twice. So under these circumstances, you'd be risking $100-200 to save yourself up to a thousand, depending on your driving record. You have to get into mid-40's for your speeding ticket to become a "major" offense.
You also tried to present demerit points as "omg horrible :shock:" Bottom line - they have no impact on your typical driver. Typical driver doesn't get nailed often enough to accumulate 9, which MAY lead to a suspension (that you can usually talk your way our of). Unless your job specifically requires a clean abstract, demerit points affect you about as much as a wart on Rihanna's ***.
While you might find giving out turboadvice to poor unsuspecting people who have no experience with the system amusing, you are literally hurting them. If you care even a little bit for their benefit, stop posting anything other than questions in this forum.
You also tried to present demerit points as "omg horrible :shock:" Bottom line - they have no impact on your typical driver. Typical driver doesn't get nailed often enough to accumulate 9, which MAY lead to a suspension (that you can usually talk your way our of). Unless your job specifically requires a clean abstract, demerit points affect you about as much as a wart on Rihanna's ***.
While you might find giving out turboadvice to poor unsuspecting people who have no experience with the system amusing, you are literally hurting them. If you care even a little bit for their benefit, stop posting anything other than questions in this forum.
if there is no R on the ticket then can it be upgraded?
MadPoet
Well-known member
I think the R is an indication to the prosecutor that it was already reduced so that he doesn't reduce it further or it may very well be just for show or for the fear element so that you don't take it to court. In the past before the R business I asked the officer to not give me a break as I will dispute it altogether then he ended up not submitting his copy and I got off that one. It is a money grab. On a different type of ticket ( red light) the prosecutor actually asked for the maximum penalty so it went up from $180 to $500 for a friend of mine. I was actually present in court that day and I couldn't believe that they can do that. I guess it falls down to the crown's evidence as they can always amend the charges after the fact but does it really happen? Or can that happen? The government never fail to amaze me.
MadPoet
Well-known member
I didn't present the end of the world for 10 over ticket like you did nor did I find it amusing to give turboadvice to poor and unsuspecting people. What I said is exactly what I would do if I was in his shoes ( I was) and that is in no way hurting anyone for all that matter. If you don't like what anyone else is posting go open your paralegal firm and advertise "legit" free consultation!
What happened to The concept that you just ride safely and legally? If you know you are guilty, what's wrong with owning up and accepting the responsibility? Is there anything in my post that suggests otherwise?
GrantH
Well-known member
Without knowing the OP's stats it borders on irresponsible to say a ticket or two won't affect his insurance record.
For example, my story starts in 2001:
1. Got my first ticket for 17 over. Paid a paralegal to fight it, he recommended I take a plea for 14 over to avoid demerits. I didn't know any better so I plead.
2. Old man driving himself to the hospital having a heart attack runs a red light and t-bones me. He admits running the red, but because of a note by the cop saying I could have seen him and avoided it, I get shared fault.
3. Had a Pickering Honda loaner car while mine was in for service. Pulled over for 'routine' check. Insurance slip is expired by 1 day. I bring the ticket into the dealership and tell him I'm picking the lawyer and they're paying for him/her. They agree, but the business manager asks for a photocopy of the ticket then proceeds to leave it "by accident" on the receptionists desk. She pays it. Guilty.
Being 20 years old with 3 things in 18 months took my combined policy for my Civic and ZX6RR from $3800 per year to $12700 per year.
I tell everyone to fight every ticket because you never know what is going to happen. If the original poster is a new driver one little mistake resulting in an accident with a failure to yield ticket could price him out of driving for 3 - 6 years.
For example, my story starts in 2001:
1. Got my first ticket for 17 over. Paid a paralegal to fight it, he recommended I take a plea for 14 over to avoid demerits. I didn't know any better so I plead.
2. Old man driving himself to the hospital having a heart attack runs a red light and t-bones me. He admits running the red, but because of a note by the cop saying I could have seen him and avoided it, I get shared fault.
3. Had a Pickering Honda loaner car while mine was in for service. Pulled over for 'routine' check. Insurance slip is expired by 1 day. I bring the ticket into the dealership and tell him I'm picking the lawyer and they're paying for him/her. They agree, but the business manager asks for a photocopy of the ticket then proceeds to leave it "by accident" on the receptionists desk. She pays it. Guilty.
Being 20 years old with 3 things in 18 months took my combined policy for my Civic and ZX6RR from $3800 per year to $12700 per year.
I tell everyone to fight every ticket because you never know what is going to happen. If the original poster is a new driver one little mistake resulting in an accident with a failure to yield ticket could price him out of driving for 3 - 6 years.
MadPoet
Well-known member
Now that's just messed up dude all things aside, even without that first ticket you are still royally screwed with an accident and a ticket, unless you had one of those forgiveness insurance features, or premium protection ( my insurance company calls it that).
Paying the fine can, in fact, be a reasonable and valid strategy, depending upon the situation. If a post states such, then goes on to explain why it's the most reasonable course of action for the situation, in that poster's opinion, then it stays. That tends to be very rare, though, and the sort that you described are automatically consigned to the bit bucket.
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