Good reason to avoid buying a condo.

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FiReSTaRT said:
But in a condo you get to be lorded over by a board of highly capable gentlemen, have your bike stolen and you don't have to worry about having the police to come and investigate.. What I always wanted in a home :cool:
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Not to mention a mostly unregulated construction indusry, being run by developers, in which the lowest price is the law. When they pour concret in the winter, they are supposed to run heat through the forms, and to have the outside of the forms insulated so the concrete can cure over the perscribed amount of time.....guess what....???.... in toronto there is NO ONE to enforce this, and the concrete companies are not liable for what the builder does with their product.

Screw that man. Not this cat.
 
If you don't like apartment style condo, go townhouse, at least, most of the time you get a garage in wich you can put your motorcycle so it doesn't get stolen after 3 days.
 
I hope I've found a happy medium. I live in a 20 year-old condo townhouse. No real problems so far, and the fees are quite reasonable. But some of the electrical is quirky. Not sure sure who owns that particular problem, but we'll be finding out real soon...
 
dankyyz said:
Not to mention a mostly unregulated construction indusry, being run by developers, in which the lowest price is the law. When they pour concret in the winter, they are supposed to run heat through the forms, and to have the outside of the forms insulated so the concrete can cure over the perscribed amount of time.....guess what....???.... in toronto there is NO ONE to enforce this, and the concrete companies are not liable for what the builder does with their product.

Screw that man. Not this cat.
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You don't run heat through the forms, but yes you cover them, and this is called hoarding.
 
Freestyle72 said:
You don't run heat through the forms, but yes you cover them, and this is called hoarding.
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The forms are supposed to have heating elements, powered ones, on the far side of the form, and actual batton insulation attached. Not just horading. Best friend is a foreman for a forming company. Highrise.
 
dankyyz said:
The forms are supposed to have heating elements, powered ones, on the far side of the form, and actual batton insulation attached. Not just horading. Best friend is a foreman for a forming company. Highrise.
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In my personal experience heaters are run with hoarding as needed. Concrete samples are taken, the number of samples is usually dependant on contract with the owner, but you have to take some samples to meet standards. These are usually done at the time of the pour and depending on what the contract stipulates you leave the sample on site to be cured in the same conditions as the slab poured. If these samples meet their 28 day strength then the slab will be fine. If they don't then you have to chip the concrete out and re-pour. Any contractor has to do at least this. Not sure where you are getting this "un-regulated" business from. besides you don't need to heat the forms in the winter. You just use a concrete with a winter mix it will usually have a different heat of hydration and may need hoarding depending on extremes of weather. The only time I have heard of elements being installed in forms is when the elements are intended to be left in there for a heated slab so that snow melts off of it rather than needed salting etc.
 
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I veel check this fact stuff. I got the coles notes from a close friend who was thinking of ratting the builder out for pouring bad concrete. Knowingly. And aparently it's done all the time. In toronto anyway.

Freestyle72 said:
In my personal experience heaters are run with hoarding as needed. Concrete samples are taken, the number of samples is usually dependant on contract with the owner, but you have to take some samples to meet standards. These are usually done at the time of the pour and depending on what the contract stipulates you leave the sample on site to be cured in the same conditions as the slab poured. If these samples meet their 28 day strength then the slab will be fine. If they don't then you have to chip the concrete out and re-pour. Any contractor has to do at least this. Not sure where you are getting this "un-regulated" business from. besides you don't need to heat the forms in the winter. You just use a concrete with a winter mix it will usually have a different heat of hydration and may need hoarding depending on extremes of weather. The only time I have heard of elements being installed in forms is when the elements are intended to be left in there for a heated slab so that snow melts off of it rather than needed salting etc.
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Freestyle72 said:
In my personal experience heaters are run with hoarding as needed. Concrete samples are taken, the number of samples is usually dependant on contract with the owner, but you have to take some samples to meet standards. These are usually done at the time of the pour and depending on what the contract stipulates you leave the sample on site to be cured in the same conditions as the slab poured. If these samples meet their 28 day strength then the slab will be fine. If they don't then you have to chip the concrete out and re-pour. Any contractor has to do at least this. Not sure where you are getting this "un-regulated" business from. besides you don't need to heat the forms in the winter. You just use a concrete with a winter mix it will usually have a different heat of hydration and may need hoarding depending on extremes of weather. The only time I have heard of elements being installed in forms is when the elements are intended to be left in there for a heated slab so that snow melts off of it rather than needed salting etc.
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I used to sell heating cables and it was rare that anyone spent the bucks to put them in to cure concrete. Tarps and propane were common.
 
dankyyz said:
Not to mention a mostly unregulated construction indusry, being run by developers, in which the lowest price is the law. When they pour concret in the winter, they are supposed to run heat through the forms, and to have the outside of the forms insulated so the concrete can cure over the perscribed amount of time.....guess what....???.... in toronto there is NO ONE to enforce this, and the concrete companies are not liable for what the builder does with their product.
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A developer gains nothing by having their buildings exposed as being substandard, especially after falling down. Lowest price may be the law when contracting trades, but developers still have a raft of regulations they have to meet to avoid all sorts of civil and criminal liabilities.

Any big project will have independent consulting engineers contracted to be on site to inspect and verify the work of the contractors. Those people will be the ones measuring pre-pour, post-pour, doing the slump tests, etc, all with the goal of keeping the contracted trades honest.

Those consulting engineers are the first line of enforcement and they have to document their work. Local government inspectors are an additional line of inspection and enforcement keeping both the consulting engineers and the trades and the developer honest. If everyone is doing their jobs, the trades don't get much room to get away with shoddy work.
 
turbodish said:
A developer gains nothing by having their buildings exposed as being substandard, especially after falling down. Lowest price may be the law when contracting trades, but developers still have a raft of regulations they have to meet to avoid all sorts of civil and criminal liabilities.

Any big project will have independent consulting engineers contracted to be on site to inspect and verify the work of the contractors. Those people will be the ones measuring pre-pour, post-pour, doing the slump tests, etc, all with the goal of keeping the contracted trades honest.

Those consulting engineers are the first line of enforcement and they have to document their work. Local government inspectors are an additional line of inspection and enforcement keeping both the consulting engineers and the trades and the developer honest. If everyone is doing their jobs, the trades don't get much room to get away with shoddy work.
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"If everyone is doing their jobs" being the key phrase. That said we are far more likely to die in a car crash than end up having a condo demolished so we shouldn't buy cars.
 
nobbie48 said:
I used to sell heating cables and it was rare that anyone spent the bucks to put them in to cure concrete. Tarps and propane were common.
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I have never actually seen or heard of these cables ever being used, but thanks for enlightening me on their existence, but also confirming what I have seen in practice.

@turbo
Of course there are lots of things to keep the contractor honest, but ****ing up a concrete pour is a big deal since some pours are literally worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Even though there are consulting engineers doing the test pre and post pour, they are still a subcontract to the general contractor who is ultimately responsible for the work. Most concrete pours are prepared for meticulously because of their relatively high value in many jobs and because of the nature of concrete (use it or lose it). Even though I am an engineer I got the ACI certification to test concrete. Would I trust myself doing the test for a pour of $300,000? No. That is the real reason we hire people to do these tests for us. Liability.
 
The whole reason for my post was to express that all the due dillagence we are talking about is OFTEN foregone. Regs and practice are NOT in synch here. And have not been for a while. Tarps and natural gas heaters are the way it is OFTEN done, but not always. And often not properly. The checks and balances we are SUPPOSED to have in play are NOT always done, and often in exchange for the bottom line. Pours are NEVER turned back. They are, all of a sudden, ok again. I'm talking highrise.

Freestyle72 said:
I have never actually seen or heard of these cables ever being used, but thanks for enlightening me on their existence, but also confirming what I have seen in practice.

@turbo
Of course there are lots of things to keep the contractor honest, but ****ing up a concrete pour is a big deal since some pours are literally worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Even though there are consulting engineers doing the test pre and post pour, they are still a subcontract to the general contractor who is ultimately responsible for the work. Most concrete pours are prepared for meticulously because of their relatively high value in many jobs and because of the nature of concrete (use it or lose it). Even though I am an engineer I got the ACI certification to test concrete. Would I trust myself doing the test for a pour of $300,000? No. That is the real reason we hire people to do these tests for us. Liability.
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I visited the website and I think that there must be some place so that the visitor may comment and
give suggestion about the article or the given information. I am looking for it. You see.
I think there is some need to make it convenience.
regards
 
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