Getting Ontario registration for 'custom' motorcycle | GTAMotorcycle.com

Getting Ontario registration for 'custom' motorcycle

T

TimDTT

Active member
I've searched and haven't found a similar question posted - lots of discussion on lost ownerships, replacement frames w/o VIN, affidavits for used bikes (which I've done) but not my particular situation.

I'm 'building' - loose term, mostly assembling - a motorcycle in a frame made by Voodoo Vintage in the US. It has a VIN and I have a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin with my name on it, the year and model of frame etc.

From what I recall, I need to get a notarized affidavit written up detailing the key components of the motorcycle and with that along with the MSO, I should be able to get an Ontario registration for the bike. Then go get it safetied so I can get plates on it.

That being said, I haven't actually found any official MTO policy detailing the process or the information required in the affidavit (or if one is needed) and the last time I went to a ServiceOntario location the wait time was 3 hours so I'd rather not spend that time to ask a question only to get a verbal answer from someone who has likely never actually dealt with the situation.

Figured I'd ask here and see if anybody has done something similar.
 
I believe is the same for motorcycle as it is for motor vehicle. I could be wrong. In fact, more than likely I am.

 
Home-built trailers are trivial to register. Starting quite a while ago home-built vehicles became a nightmare to register. Some people do it (normally with a mechanic accomplice).

If you start from a recognized vehicle (eg. frame from a motorcycle with a 17 digit vin) you can register that vin with MTO and it's easy to get registered. Insurance may not like you though if you have anything other than a stock engine from that bike.

Have you tried talking to an insurance broker about this bike? If you can't get insurance, registration barely matters. Talk to one or more of the knowledgeable brokers and see what they expect with a home-built or Voodoo Vintage VIN. I expect insurance companies won't have enough information to rate it well so they will put it in the worst possible category as they don't want to deal with it (assuming they are willing to write it at all).

Is your frame a hardtail? That makes your life even harder (unless a mechanic is happy putting their license on the line for you). Safety wording is slightly ambiguous (important part quoted below for reference). It doesn't explicitly require rear-suspension but does require springs and shocks that aren't missing. If you have a hard-tail, they aren't missing as they were never there. I'm not sure how much leeway a mechanic has to make that call. There is an exemption for historic vehicles but this isn't that.

Law Document English View

Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.
www.ontario.ca www.ontario.ca
4. (1) Front and rear springs, shock-absorbers, swing arms, their supports and attachments shall not be loose, bent, cracked, broken, excessively worn, disconnected or missing.

(2) The swing arm and forks of the motorcycle shall be visually inspected for proper alignment and the wheels shall not track improperly so as to adversely affect control of the vehicle.

historic vehicles​

12. An historic vehicle inspected under section 3, 4, 4.1, 4.2, 4.4, 5, 5.1, 8 or 10, as applicable, shall be inspected and tested in accordance with the inspection requirements referred to in that section and shall be in a functional condition relative to its design, construction and operation. O. Reg. 80/11, s. 7.
 
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It’s a factory made frame from the US with a unique VIN and it is a rigid. They provide a MSO certificate which likely means more in the US than it does here.

I was really just curious if anybody had actually gone through the process. I’ll wade through it and see what happens regardless. If I don’t manage to get it registered here I’ll haul it to the US and give it to a friend there or sell it at Mid Ohio or Barber either whole or in parts.

Just something I’ve been tinkering with for 11 years but I’m finally close to it being a runner.

index.php
 
Bit of a development. After a long hold with MTO, I was advised to call the Branding office. After a long hold, I was advised to email the Branding office.

24 hours later I received a response and it wasn't a flat 'No', it was a request for photos and a bit more information with a promise to pass me along to the right people to help get me registered.

So.... cautiously optimistic.
 
I've partly been through the process, owning a custom bike with custom built frame, but no VIN. I went down Service Ontario and they had to call Ottawa for direction. Now this isn't you, because you have a VIN, but for me to get a VIN (starting with HOM for home built), I need either an affadavit saying the frame is home built together with invoices and photos or a New Vehicle Information Sheet (NVIS) which only manufacturers have. I didn't go ahead since I'm taking the bike back to the UK so will go through the process there instead.

So, you shouldn't need the affadavit, just proof of the VIN with a photo which they can then put on the MTO database, like an imported bike. My advice would be to go to a Service Ontario where you can book an appointment and wait for the desk clerk to get direction from Ottawa and you should come away with an ownership within an hr or so.
 
Mozz said:
I've partly been through the process, owning a custom bike with custom built frame, but no VIN. I went down Service Ontario and they had to call Ottawa for direction. Now this isn't you, because you have a VIN, but for me to get a VIN (starting with HOM for home built), I need either an affadavit saying the frame is home built together with invoices and photos or a New Vehicle Information Sheet (NVIS) which only manufacturers have. I didn't go ahead since I'm taking the bike back to the UK so will go through the process there instead.

So, you shouldn't need the affadavit, just proof of the VIN with a photo which they can then put on the MTO database, like an imported bike. My advice would be to go to a Service Ontario where you can book an appointment and wait for the desk clerk to get direction from Ottawa and you should come away with an ownership within an hr or so.
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When? I thought hom was almost unubtainium for quite a while. I know something that builds cars and bikes from scratch but he registers them using legitimate vins from donor vehicles with a mechanic that signs off sight unseen.
 
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GreyGhost said:
When? I thought hom was almost unubtainium for quite a while. I know something that builds cars and bikes from scratch but he registers them using legitimate vins from donor vehicles with a mechanic that signs off sight unseen.
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Last year. HOM is still alive and well.
 
Right now I have someone from Vehicle Branding in St Catherines working with me by email and he seems to be genuinely interested in helping so we will see how that progresses.

Appointments at SO offices are hard to come by. Soonest I could find was a month out but I’ll book something as a placeholder regardless.
 
Another update - I must be getting lucky with the people at MTO, as not only did I get a response in less than 24 hours to my email, but this morning I got a phone call from another person there who laid it all out. Absolutely no problem at all to register the motorcycle as 'rebuilt'.

1. Notarized document describing the bike - the frame, parts used etc. There doesn't seem to be a template for this so I'm just going to keep it simple as a list of the key parts used on the bike like the frame, front suspension, wheels/brakes, tires, gas tank etc. I won't get into the lighting or those smaller bits. I'll need to state that I don't have receipts for those parts because they were acquired over many years and are older 2nd hand items from the 1970's Yamaha XS650.

2. MSO and bill of sale for the frame

With those two things, they will issue a registration with the year and manufacturer of the frame, and 'RBT' for 'Rebuilt' as the model.

I have no idea what they would do if someone was to make their own frame in a garage, but frankly, if this works, then I suspect anybody could whip up a frame, make up a unique VIN, print up a 'certificate' and register it.

He suggested I could get it safetied first, but I'm not convinced any local mechanic would issue a safety for a bike without an Ontario registration - perhaps, but I'm not sure. I'll get the registration first as 'unfit' and then use the same guy who has issued me 20 safeties over the years for this one after the fact.
 
TimDTT said:
He suggested I could get it safetied first, but I'm not convinced any local mechanic would issue a safety for a bike without an Ontario registration - perhaps, but I'm not sure. I'll get the registration first as 'unfit' and then use the same guy who has issued me 20 safeties over the years for this one after the fact.
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You don't need an ownership to get something safetied.
Most shops will request to see one just to avoid your having a hassle at Service Ontario.
As a New/Rebuilt there is no requirement BUT it still has to pass.
 
I'm very impressed with your progress. I 100% did not think a motorcycle in Ontario could have a rebuilt title. Keep posting. I've looked for similar info in the past and I don't think it's on the internet.
 
Motorcycles can't have a Rebuilt 'Brand' based on what I've read. In this case the Brand I expect will be the normal 'None' and the Model will be 'RBT' according to my guy at MTO.

He actually called me again today to let me know he called the ServiceOntario Hotline and opened a ticket, as the MSO I was given has a slight misspelling of my last name. He called that in to let them know the MTO is aware and that it is fine. So now I even have a SO Hotline ticket number I can provide to the SO clerk if they have any concerns.

Got my Affidavit notarized this morning and found an appointment at a SO location for tomorrow morning. About 30 minutes away but I'd rather have an appointment than wait forever. My local SO has a 90+ minute wait at the moment this morning and it was 3 hours the other day.
 
TK4 said:
You don't need an ownership to get something safetied.
Most shops will request to see one just to avoid your having a hassle at Service Ontario.
As a New/Rebuilt there is no requirement BUT it still has to pass.
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100% will be getting a safety issued. I've bought probably a dozen used bikes over the years, including more than one that I had to do an affidavit for due to no ownership being on hand. That's where the UVIP comes in handy to confirm the last registered owner for a new bill of sale.
 
OK - mission accomplished

It took about an hour of discussion, much of which was because the 'invoice' I had printed wasn't quite up to the standards of the SO agent I was working with, and they can't print images sent to them by email to save their lives.

But - after all was said and done, with some assistance from a second SO agent and a few phone calls, I now have an Ontario registration for my 'VOOD' Voodoo Vintage motorcycle.

The make of a vehicle is limited to 4 characters, and it was literally up to me what to use so like HOND for Honda etc. I just went with VOOD for Voodoo. Maybe I should have used 'MINE' or 'STFU' or something clever but VOOD it is.

The model is 'RBT' which stands for Rebuilt. You have to be careful as the agent ALMOST put Rebuilt as the Brand. She started talking about needing a structural certificate etc. etc. which isn't actually possible for a Motorcycle. If you do this, make 1000% sure they're using 'None' for the branding.

I said 'Silver' for the colour as it isn't painted yet and there was no discussion about motor size, although I did indicate 650cc on the affidavit.

My affidavit simply stated I purchased the frame with the VIN, the amount I paid etc. and the list of major components I used on the motorcycle.

I have assembled a motorcycle using the above-mentioned frame and the following list of major components:
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 650cc motor
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 front steering and suspension
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 front and rear wheels and brakes
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 fuel tank
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 exhaust system
  • 1975 Yamaha XS650 ignition, battery and charging system
The components on the list above have been in my personal possession for an extended period of time and I am unable to provide purchase receipts for those components.

I didn't bother with any other components and they didn't ask. I purposely left off lighting as this may end up with no turn signals, more than likely a non DOT tail light and I didn't mention rear suspension of course because there isn't any. I kept it simple with all the parts being associated with a 1975 Yamaha XS650 which is generally true.

I'm not particularly concerned about the safety inspection - I've had any number of bikes safetied and know where to go for this particular motorcycle.

The safety could have been done in advance, and likely would have made things a bit faster and avoided the potential mis-branding of the vehicle but it isn't necessary.

I had to pay taxes on the purchase price of the frame (again) but that was only $50 and was the only fee I was charged.
 

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TimDTT said:
Years ago I had called my then insurance company and got positive feedback, but I'll give them a call today and enquire.
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Any news?

Interesting process thus far, but given the realities of motorcycle insurance in this province anymore I fear insurance is going to be a big hurdle.
 
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