General Motors Oshawa to Close

[crankcall]

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GM's tough spot wasn't /isn't all thier own doing, part of the bailout settlement meant they had to produce a cross section of product, even if some of it wasn't relevant. In order to get grants and loans of other kinds they have to hit economy standards so for every 1500 series pickup you make you need some eco box to offset your "averages" .
Then they have the auto union, which would rather stand on the curb than 'give in to the man' .

Nobody would want to be one of the 1500 guys out of work, but if I was a GM executive, with enough production in my existing plants that 3 or 4 needed to close, and the future of the product didnt need all that capacity I'd close them .

 

[gsxr guy]

I remember attending an event that Frank Stronach spoke at about 10 years ago. At that time he said the unionized autoworker made $35/hr + benefits compared to $21hr for equivalent manufacturing jobs across the Canadian manufacturing market. His point was that auto unions were geared to win battles, but lacked the foresight and planning to win the war. He said auto unions were not adept at handling change, that they continued to look at maximizing their gains in 2-3 year windows when they needed to be looking 10 years down the road.

Looks like he was right.

Exactly, huge $ for a general labourer. Maybe the union should look at fast food and get all those workers grossly over paid. lol

 

[nobbie48]

Exactly, huge $ for a general labourer. Maybe the union should look at fast food and get all those workers grossly over paid. lol

The economy has a catch 22. If workers don't get raises they can't buy more stuff. If they can't buy more stuff economic growth suffers. To compensate for the higher wages manufacturers have to use cheaper labour, robots or Mexicans, therefore laying off local staff. At some point the tipping point is reached and it's a big drop to the bottom.

A quantum rethink is needed but no one, union, employer or government wants to raise the point.

 

[Roadghost]

I just bought a used one. I’m a member of the APA so it was one of their recommended EV’s.

I never though that I would ever buy an EV but so far I’m surprised. I like it and have no problem using it as a primary car which was one of my big concerns

I think styling is like any other small sedan. It’s looks similar to a Hyundai, Kia or Toyota. I assume a lot of the design is spit out of a computer anyway

Actually, I meant the BOLT, not the Volt. The Volt is OK.

 

[SunnY S]

Gm Canada latest post on Twitter.

They are just digging themselves deeper and deeper in the hole.

Comments section tells all.

 

[j2]

Actually, I meant the BOLT, not the Volt. The Volt is OK.

The Ampera-E seems to look so much better. It’s the Opel version of the Bolt but has a much nicer front end

 

[PrivatePilot]

The Ampera-E seems to look so much better. It’s the Opel version of the Bolt but has a much nicer front end

They're nearly identical aside from ever so slightly different grille inserts.

News in the last 48 hours around here is that GM has said they are open to selling the plant to a competitor.

At some point if the reality that GM isn't changing their mind seems clear (and I'm still of the opinion that things could yet change inside the next 12 months), this is an interesting prospect. The workers there do have the very real bragging rights of being one of the highest initial quality auto plants in North America. There are competitors that would appreciate that.

There was rumours Hyundai was looking at the property at some point in the past.

 

[AllistonGT]

Major problem for any company looking to take the GM plant over is if it would have to include the GM employees and their union. If it does it will never happen.

 

[crankcall]

They're nearly identical aside from ever so slightly different grille inserts.



News in the last 48 hours around here is that GM has said they are open to selling the plant to a competitor.

At some point if the reality that GM isn't changing their mind seems clear (and I'm still of the opinion that things could yet change inside the next 12 months), this is an interesting prospect. The workers there do have the very real bragging rights of being one of the highest initial quality auto plants in North America. There are competitors that would appreciate that.

There was rumours Hyundai was looking at the property at some point in the past.

It would sure be a lot cheaper for anybody that wanted an auto plant to buy an existing facility than turn sod, existing workforce is a handy thing and negotiating with a company that wants out and a municipal/provincial/federal gov't that ALL wants this place saved gives some huge advantage to a buyer.
Best scenario ever for GM would be selling the place, they walk away nearly unscathed.

 

[Mad Mike]

The economy has a catch 22. If workers don't get raises they can't buy more stuff. If they can't buy more stuff economic growth suffers. To compensate for the higher wages manufacturers have to use cheaper labour, robots or Mexicans, therefore laying off local staff. At some point the tipping point is reached and it's a big drop to the bottom.

A quantum rethink is needed but no one, union, employer or government wants to raise the point.

It's not really a catch 22. A small section of workers in the "final assembly" are in a position to punch above their weight. You can only do that for so long, it amazes me that unions have preferred to drive the bus off the cliff rather than settle into wage agreements that are in line with the rest of the industry.

Perhaps the delta between Canada and Mexico is not solvable -- it's impossible to get the cost of Canadian labor to go from $65 to $12/hr.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Major problem for any company looking to take the GM plant over is if it would have to include the GM employees and their union. If it does it will never happen.

You do understand that it's those very employees who are responsible for turning out the extreme level of initial quality that plant is known for, however, right?

Everyone talks about the employees as if they're a liability. Despite the fact GM apparently wants to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator when it comes to production cost vs an actual quality product (that didn't work out so well for them when they moved the pickups from Oshawa to Mexico post 2008...) but I do think there are other manufactures who are still more interested in building quality vehicles that don't return countless times to the dealer for post-purchase repairs (angering the consumer) versus worrying about driving the lowest possible production cost.

And with out dollar still hovering around 25% and our lower cost per employer healthcare costs (vs the USA), we do still have advantages.

Could be interesting.

it amazes me that unions have preferred to drive the bus off the cliff rather than settle into wage agreements that are in line with the rest of the industry.

Uh, Unifor did exactly that. . Any new hires under their current agreement make only a little over 60% of the wage of legacy employees. They DID agree to very significant wage cuts. Yes, it was a stepped progression that would see them, only after a full 10 years of employment, reach the legacy wage, but it seemed likely that could/would be adjusted again in the future...and 10 years of wage reduction is a very real saving to GM.

And sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the fact that we, as human beings, should all rush to reduce ourselves to the bottom of the corporate pay structure to 'secure' our jobs, especially when the people at the top (who are not destroying their bodies working on a line for many decades but are just sitting in an office doing nothing more physical than pushing keys on a computer) make millions of dollars in wages, and the corporation as a whole makes millions or billions in profits.

 

[AllistonGT]

You do understand that it's those very employees who are responsible for turning out the extreme level of initial quality that plant is known for, however, right?

Fair enough. I was in the UAW (therefor a member for life) when Bob White branched off the Canadian side and created the CAW. My experiance of working in that environment has shaped my view the last 35 years.

Just to be clear I haven't been a member in good standing (paying monthly dues) for over 30 years.

 

[Clem]

i have to say I do prefer the Opel. I rented one on a business trip to Barcelona last February. It was a nice enough car. It was black so the front bumpers, grills and hood all blended together. That yellow/gold would not be my favourite

 

[crankcall]

$65.00? that's $135,000.00 per yr. Those guys cant be making that coin can they??

 

[AllistonGT]

$65.00? that's $135,000.00 per yr. Those guys cant be making that coin can they??

Wouldn't shock me. If you include the free legal advice. orthodontic coverage, defined pension, dental, drugs, prescription eyeglasses etc.

 

[Mad Mike]

$65.00? that's $135,000.00 per yr. Those guys cant be making that coin can they??

That is what it is for a tenured labourer. For auto workers, you can't just look at the wage because it;'s a combination of hourly rates and a plethora of other items. For example, a tenured employee earns a wage of around $34/hr, but they have complex agreements that distribute pay and benefits in proportions that are different than most industries - when you total these benefits the all-in cost for the employer is around $65/hr. For example this year a tenured assembler would get $34/hr base wage, OT or premium rates kick in after 8 hours in a day and/or 40hrs/week, Saturdays, Sundays and late and OVN shifts; 4.5weeks of vacation/paid absence + 10 extra days (6.5 weeks PTO); $4K per year in guaranteed contract bonuses, $10K benefit package, and about a $! /hour contributed for them to the union.

 

[crankcall]

so if you have 3000 of these folks at that rate, give or take, payroll comes out about $405,000,000. Oshawa would miss that.

 

[nobbie48]

And sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the fact that we, as human beings, should all rush to reduce ourselves to the bottom of the corporate pay structure to 'secure' our jobs, especially when the people at the top (who are not destroying their bodies working on a line for many decades but are just sitting in an office doing nothing more physical than pushing keys on a computer) make millions of dollars in wages, and the corporation as a whole makes millions or billions in profits.

It's the same top or bottom in many cases.

On the bottom a guy gets a job, fights for security and expects more than cost of living increases while producing the same output.

At the top a guy invests some money and expects greater than cost of living returns on the investment while putting in nothing else beneficial.

Free trade favours the guy at the top.

Consumers cheers for the guy at the bottom but since they're cash strapped, buy from the guy at the top.

 

[Mad Mike]

It's the same top or bottom in many cases.

On the bottom a guy gets a job, fights for security and expects more than cost of living increases while producing the same output.

At the top a guy invests some money and expects greater than cost of living returns on the investment while putting in nothing else beneficial.

Free trade favours the guy at the top.

Consumers cheers for the guy at the bottom but since they're cash strapped, buy from the guy at the top.

Free trade favors the guy at the bottom. He is the first to benefit from increased spending power when the overall cost of the goods he uses is reduced. The guy at the bottom is the one more likely to buy a Korean Hyundai or a Honda is assembled in Canada from Chinese parts than he is to buy a VW or GM car built in MX from CA and US parts. He can enjoy a decent life by birthright, not because he capitalized on the opportunity provided for him in a country that offers everyone opportunity.

The guy at the top has a similar pay structure and return on her investment anywhere in the world -- she has no protected advantage or status because she lives in Canada.

Bill Gates once lamented about western opportunity "It's not your fault if you're born poor. It is your fault if you die that way."

 

[crankcall]

The older the civilization and culture the more oppressive the regimes and lesser the opportunity. Yet when coming to the new world they will endeavor to make it just like home.

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