Front wheel lifting and violently wobbling

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If you are sitting too far back on the seat you are basically loading up your rear suspension and unloading the front. This is why it was so easy to lift the front end on accelleration and also why you were unstable in a corner. Going into the corner your bike was imbalanced by having too much weight in the rear and too little on the fron resulting in your cornering instability.
 
1.So today I had a weird thing happen when I set off to work in the morning 2.(cold tires).. 3.upon hard acceleration from 1st to 2nd I notice that the 4.front tire lifted slightly and violently wobbled and then settled back down. This happened once again but then stopped when I started to take it easy.

I ride a ninja and my front wheel has never come up ever apart from when I've dumped the clutch at redline.

Suspension issues maybe?? I also ran really wide in a corner today - a corner where I normally take comfortably. I had to ride up onto a curb and then back down it was so bad.

Does this just sound like a bad day or is something ****ed on my bike?

1. Thats nothing weird, you just don't know how to ride, therefore the bike reacted to it.

2. Problem 1. You never full throttle on cold tires...ever, good thing you had it on a 250, i had it on a 600 and it wasn't a big deal for me due to experience of controlling wobbles, drifts what ever, but cold for a novioce.

3. This will always happen on hard acceleration on any bike from 1st to 2nd with the right conditions, that are, cold tires, hard acceleration from 1st to 2nd, on a un even pavement with sudden full throttle rip, you have to learn to be smoother in applying power.

4. This is the result, it can happen on ANY motorcycle with enough power for the bike itself, most bikes are too powerful for their weight and size.

Contribution to such wobble:

Cold tires, 1st to 2nd full throttle dump, lifting or throwing all weight off the front wheel, your hands are not equally balanced while ripping throttle one hand and holding on the other, which contributes to the wobble, and the front tire skims along on the uneven surface trying to grip with no weight so it starts to wobble, as soon as weight comes back down the wheel corrects itself.

This type of wobble is completely different from tank slappers from wheelies. Watch pro GP1 riders they get this type of wobble almost every corner braking and accelerating, but they know how to control it.


Extra Info:
If anyone has a damper, good luck saving a tank slapper, from my experience you are more lickely to save from a tank slapper without a damper then one with and relying on it, i've tested this, a damper can only handle so much, its perfect for high speed stability thats about it, when it comes to tank slappers its so heavy that your wrists almost feel like they are going to shatter because the damper eats the wobble violently and takes your hands for a ride, (Try going to a store with those dampers on top of doors and try to move it fast open and close, you can't, vs a door without, you'd have complete control on the one without it on the door, the one without you can control the speed the door opens and closes at your speed and liking and is easy on your arms, the damper system is only one speed compression & rebound anything else & it will hurt you) & you have no control over it, and you cannot control the compression of the damper taking the wobble in either, and steering becomes really heavy and painful as well, you just have to go "along for the painful ride", as for dampers don't cause wobbles, these people have never done anything but learn to pose with their bikes.

IMO riders need to learn to ride properly from day one so they don't need a damper in the first place, my bike came with a damper, i removed it, it started to piss me off, ever since that day, i control my bike not it, it taught me to have exceptional smooth throttle control, when and how to rip the throttle... fix your technique of riding like a pro, and not like the generic public by getting parts to fix your mistakes and bad habits. Only get a damper if you like going 150 + in a staight line and then go home, if you like lifting the front wheel, carving mountains and switching left to right fast, doing fast slow manuver riding don't get one just learn to ride properly and tame your beast.
 
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Fast forward to 1:40

[video=youtube;aaMcWiwZhw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMcWiwZhw0[/video]

When your ambitions outrun your skill level this is what happens...

That corner could have been made at 4 times his speed without trying, but without the know how and experience this poor soul was doomed from the get go.

Holy Carp That guy is worse at getting the thing moving than I was during the safety training course last weekend. :lmao:
 
Fast forward to 1:40

[video=youtube;aaMcWiwZhw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaMcWiwZhw0[/video]

When your ambitions outrun your skill level this is what happens...

I did not fast forward to 1:40. Am not that ambitious. Was worth the wait tho. Why do learners and test riders wear the least protection? Isn't that when more protection is needed?
 
1. Thats nothing weird, you just don't know how to ride, therefore the bike reacted to it.

2. Problem 1. You never full throttle on cold tires...ever, good thing you had it on a 250, i had it on a 600 and it wasn't a big deal for me due to experience of controlling wobbles, drifts what ever, but cold for a novioce.

3. This will always happen on hard acceleration on any bike from 1st to 2nd with the right conditions, that are, cold tires, hard acceleration from 1st to 2nd, on a un even pavement with sudden full throttle rip, you have to learn to be smoother in applying power.

4. This is the result, it can happen on ANY motorcycle with enough power for the bike itself, most bikes are too powerful for their weight and size.

Contribution to such wobble:

Cold tires, 1st to 2nd full throttle dump, lifting or throwing all weight off the front wheel, your hands are not equally balanced while ripping throttle one hand and holding on the other, which contributes to the wobble, and the front tire skims along on the uneven surface trying to grip with no weight so it starts to wobble, as soon as weight comes back down the wheel corrects itself.

This type of wobble is completely different from tank slappers from wheelies. Watch pro GP1 riders they get this type of wobble almost every corner braking and accelerating, but they know how to control it.


Extra Info:
If anyone has a damper, good luck saving a tank slapper, from my experience you are more lickely to save from a tank slapper without a damper then one with and relying on it, i've tested this, a damper can only handle so much, its perfect for high speed stability thats about it, when it comes to tank slappers its so heavy that your wrists almost feel like they are going to shatter because the damper eats the wobble violently and takes your hands for a ride, (Try going to a store with those dampers on top of doors and try to move it fast open and close, you can't, vs a door without, you'd have complete control on the one without it on the door, the one without you can control the speed the door opens and closes at your speed and liking and is easy on your arms, the damper system is only one speed compression & rebound anything else & it will hurt you) & you have no control over it, and you cannot control the compression of the damper taking the wobble in either, and steering becomes really heavy and painful as well, you just have to go "along for the painful ride", as for dampers don't cause wobbles, these people have never done anything but learn to pose with their bikes.

IMO riders need to learn to ride properly from day one so they don't need a damper in the first place, my bike came with a damper, i removed it, it started to piss me off, ever since that day, i control my bike not it, it taught me to have exceptional smooth throttle control, when and how to rip the throttle... fix your technique of riding like a pro, and not like the generic public by getting parts to fix your mistakes and bad habits. Only get a damper if you like going 150 + in a staight line and then go home, if you like lifting the front wheel, carving mountains and switching left to right fast, doing fast slow manuver riding don't get one just learn to ride properly and tame your beast.

This doesn't make sense to me, wouldn't the tank slapper be more violent without any resistance? aka no damper?

You know there are electronic steering dampers eh? HESD is one of them, and at low speeds its easy to turn the bars, accelerate hard or go fast and it automatically adjusts...

Also having ridden bikes with and without dampers id never go back to without. Other than misinformation i dont know why anyone would want to ride WITHOUT one
 
I ride a 250 also. i watched the video in this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyRYL80lvn8&feature=youtu.be earlier this week and started applying the principles to taking turn and curves with confidence.

As was stated by several posters, half a cheek off the seat and knee pointed to the side you want to turn and counter steer, the bike turns effortlessly; everything done smoothly. Also, look to where you want to go. these principles makes it effortless and fun.

you need to have confidence in yourself, your bike and especially your tires.
 
So I had the unpleasant opportunity to experience my front wheel lifting last Friday when about to do a left turn. Engine stalled when it was my turn to move, started it back up, gave some gas and started moving again; Next thing I know I'm up, I'm down and then I'm on the floor.

Scraped my knee in two places, and got a few minor bruises, nothing broken. I will definitely get knee pads or get a different pair of pants with some knee armor when I get back on the bike though.

Cop looks at me and goes "I've been riding 9-10 yeas and have never fallen off a bike." In my head I was going "Good for you, glad I could make you feel better about yourself." Even the paramedic went "Don't listen to that prick" after the cop walked away.

Bike has some fairing damage and the shifter was bent in, hobbled it over to Kahuna to get it looked at, apparently the chain was a bit loose too.

Most likely entirely my fault so live and learn. :sad7:

Now I just want my knee to stop hurting so I can get back on the bike.
 
Damn dude - at least you're (relatively) OK. Did you report/have to report this to your ins?
 
Damn dude - at least you're (relatively) OK. Did you report/have to report this to your ins?


Nah I didn't report it,

Cop said "I can either do the paperwork or not do it. If I do the paperwork I'll also be charging you for reckless driving since you obviously lost control of your vehicle. If you are injured then I absolutely have to file the paperwork. So, are you injured?" I told him I'd just walk the bike to the garage and deal with the repairs, took my papers back and walked away.

Not really concerned about the fairing damage, that can wait until I am more comfortable with the bike.

Kahuna said they were only charging me for 30 minutes of work for the shifter and chain.
 
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When your ambitions outrun your skill level this is what happens.

I am no race instructor but I believe his cornering technique could use improvement.
 
So I had the unpleasant opportunity to experience my front wheel lifting last Friday when about to do a left turn. Engine stalled when it was my turn to move, started it back up, gave some gas and started moving again; Next thing I know I'm up, I'm down and then I'm on the floor.

Scraped my knee in two places, and got a few minor bruises, nothing broken. I will definitely get knee pads or get a different pair of pants with some knee armor when I get back on the bike though.

Cop looks at me and goes "I've been riding 9-10 yeas and have never fallen off a bike." In my head I was going "Good for you, glad I could make you feel better about yourself." Even the paramedic went "Don't listen to that prick" after the cop walked away.

Bike has some fairing damage and the shifter was bent in, hobbled it over to Kahuna to get it looked at, apparently the chain was a bit loose too.

Most likely entirely my fault so live and learn. :sad7:

Now I just want my knee to stop hurting so I can get back on the bike.


Glad to hear you are ok with only some scrapes. What bike do you ride?? From the sound of it, seems like it is something with a little more juice in it...

I don't know your level of experience, sounds like a rookie mistake but then again, it could very well happen to an experience rider especially if its a mechanical issue with the bike.


If you are just starting out, maybe a good idea to practice your throttle control on side streets to the level of comfort that you would not stall the bike before heading out to busy traffic.

Ride safe!
 
Cop looks at me and goes "I've been riding 9-10 yeas and have never fallen off a bike." In my head I was going "Good for you, glad I could make you feel better about yourself." Even the paramedic went "Don't listen to that prick" after the cop walked away.

probably been riding in a straight line for 9-10 years...
 
Glad to hear you are ok with only some scrapes. What bike do you ride?? From the sound of it, seems like it is something with a little more juice in it...

I don't know your level of experience, sounds like a rookie mistake but then again, it could very well happen to an experience rider especially if its a mechanical issue with the bike.


If you are just starting out, maybe a good idea to practice your throttle control on side streets to the level of comfort that you would not stall the bike before heading out to busy traffic.

Ride safe!

Riding a Kawi 250

I did my motorcycle safety course the week prior to this happening and after spending the better part of a day in a parking lot practicing I had been riding the bike to and from work with no issues whatsoever all week. So I was under the impression I had things under control.

I was actually planning to bring the bike to Kahuna during the weekend because I felt my shifter was acting weird, once or twice on the way to work that day I while at a light I tapped on the shifter to make sure I was in first and it bounced into Neutral instead. But the Neutral light only came on when I tried to start moving.
 
So I had the unpleasant opportunity to experience my front wheel lifting last Friday when about to do a left turn. Engine stalled when it was my turn to move, started it back up, gave some gas and started moving again; Next thing I know I'm up, I'm down and then I'm on the floor.

Scraped my knee in two places, and got a few minor bruises, nothing broken. I will definitely get knee pads or get a different pair of pants with some knee armor when I get back on the bike though.

Cop looks at me and goes "I've been riding 9-10 yeas and have never fallen off a bike." In my head I was going "Good for you, glad I could make you feel better about yourself." Even the paramedic went "Don't listen to that prick" after the cop walked away.

Bike has some fairing damage and the shifter was bent in, hobbled it over to Kahuna to get it looked at, apparently the chain was a bit loose too.

Most likely entirely my fault so live and learn. :sad7:

Now I just want my knee to stop hurting so I can get back on the bike.

Are you sure it's a 250? ;)
Seriously - you need some practice on clutch control in a controlled environment.
 
So I had the unpleasant opportunity to experience my front wheel lifting last Friday when about to do a left turn. Engine stalled when it was my turn to move, started it back up, gave some gas and started moving again; Next thing I know I'm up, I'm down and then I'm on the floor.......

Now I just want my knee to stop hurting so I can get back on the bike.


Glad you're ok.

Was there a car behind you making a left? if so, perhaps you felt rushed and panicked. Just like when driving a car, do your own thing, don't feel pressured by vehicles behind you, get your wits about you first then proceed, in a hurried manner if you wish but under control.

Like the guys above said, practice, practice, practice.
 
This doesn't make sense to me, wouldn't the tank slapper be more violent without any resistance? aka no damper?

You know there are electronic steering dampers eh? HESD is one of them, and at low speeds its easy to turn the bars, accelerate hard or go fast and it automatically adjusts...

Also having ridden bikes with and without dampers id never go back to without. Other than misinformation i dont know why anyone would want to ride WITHOUT one

Just because you don't understand what im talking about dosen't mean its misinformation...

also i don't mean to sound like a dick, but im fairly confident, i could run laps around you on the street without even braking a sweat. Fact is most of you here are posers who park at meets with your shiny bikes, and all these rider error replacement parts like dampers, dampers are not for tank slappers, again they are for extreme high speed fork stability, like GP1 etc.

all these dampers and HESD and technical enhancements for the generic public are for people whos automotive/riding skill level is moderate at best, these are just tools to help prevent less accidents from people who can't ride like pros, these devices don't make your a better or safer rider.

you think sport bikes are the only ones that can have a tank slapper? even 50cc scooters can have it, a tank slapper is a sighn of two things, you are a noob, or you don't maintain your bike, learning from that and never letting that happen again is better then buying a damper. which again is for high speed fork stability, and not tank slappers. a tank slapper will even happen on a bike with a damper, only difference on a bike with a damper its nearly impossible to be incontrol as the damper takes over and does a shittty job of the tank slap.

When you're at my skill level these kinds of devices actually reduces the riders capabilities then improve, because these are preventative measures not devices that improve skill.

You are just like every other person out there, you see the glass half empty, while i see it half full. Yes the damper takes in violent head shake from front wheel wobbles, but you CANNOT control a damper or the wobble once it takes over, where as a rider who rely's on his own skill will never have wobble because he knows how to control it and if it does happen, he/she can control how its taken out, with a damper you CANNOT do that, you have to let the damper do all the work, and a damper is not built for tank slappers, its built to be optimal while keeping forks stable at very high speeds. I've seen $600 dampers fail with extremely violent headk shake where the compression failed, because people with such devices ride like *** and rough never realiseing how bad their riding style is while the damper is taking in all the abuse and never letting the rider know how crap their riding is till it finally fails, and rider crashes and talks about tank slapper. If you knew how to ride right and learned how to NOT cause the bike to react with a tank slapper you would never experience it.



Fact will always remain, skill > everything else.
 
Those 250 can be peppy.. I've done the same revved it too high before gearing it. Thankfully I was able handle it.. After you get used to it you can control it better.... Any mods on yours?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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Just because you don't understand what im talking about dosen't mean its misinformation...

also i don't mean to sound like a dick, but im fairly confident, i could run laps around you on the street without even braking a sweat. Fact is most of you here are posers who park at meets with your shiny bikes, and all these rider error replacement parts like dampers, dampers are not for tank slappers, again they are for extreme high speed fork stability, like GP1 etc.

all these dampers and HESD and technical enhancements for the generic public are for people whos automotive/riding skill level is moderate at best, these are just tools to help prevent less accidents from people who can't ride like pros, these devices don't make your a better or safer rider.

you think sport bikes are the only ones that can have a tank slapper? even 50cc scooters can have it, a tank slapper is a sighn of two things, you are a noob, or you don't maintain your bike, learning from that and never letting that happen again is better then buying a damper. which again is for high speed fork stability, and not tank slappers. a tank slapper will even happen on a bike with a damper, only difference on a bike with a damper its nearly impossible to be incontrol as the damper takes over and does a shittty job of the tank slap.

When you're at my skill level these kinds of devices actually reduces the riders capabilities then improve, because these are preventative measures not devices that improve skill.

You are just like every other person out there, you see the glass half empty, while i see it half full. Yes the damper takes in violent head shake from front wheel wobbles, but you CANNOT control a damper or the wobble once it takes over, where as a rider who rely's on his own skill will never have wobble because he knows how to control it and if it does happen, he/she can control how its taken out, with a damper you CANNOT do that, you have to let the damper do all the work, and a damper is not built for tank slappers, its built to be optimal while keeping forks stable at very high speeds. I've seen $600 dampers fail with extremely violent headk shake where the compression failed, because people with such devices ride like *** and rough never realiseing how bad their riding style is while the damper is taking in all the abuse and never letting the rider know how crap their riding is till it finally fails, and rider crashes and talks about tank slapper. If you knew how to ride right and learned how to NOT cause the bike to react with a tank slapper you would never experience it.



Fact will always remain, skill > everything else.

If you ride in a way that steering wobble is not possible your not going to be running laps around anyone.
 
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