kiwi
Well-known member
the stay right also applies to 2 lane boulevards and other roads where there are multiple lanes going the same way. Ontario drivers have no concept of this.
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Four motorcyclists charged for doing 192km/hr on the 404
- Thread starter kiwi
- Start date
the stay right also applies to 2 lane boulevards and other roads where there are multiple lanes going the same way. Ontario drivers have no concept of this.
Except that traffic volume, frequent intersections, private driveways, left-turn requirements (and even street parking on one-way streets) make "keeping right" a totally different animal in an urban surface street driving environment.
Needless to say, it is not easy to find stats on actual speeds driven on the freeways so we are left with anecdotal evidence (for me on the 401 it's about 30kmh). Regardless, your original statement that they were doing 30-40 over the average is an unnecessary exaggeration. The average speed excluding the slow lane is 120-130 I would say, so significantly over the legal limit and thus making a mockery of the law. But come on, 192kmh is taking the mickey, no? And we also know the differential was high because they were making lane changes around other vehicles. That is, they were going at least 40-50kmh faster than other traffic which is pretty hazardous for riders and drivers. We can argue for higher limits without undermining our efforts by going totally overboard.
Face
Well-known member
But it should mean pull over to the right if there is space and someone is coming up behind you. But not here in the world of "driving while oblivious"!
Every lane change is a potential for collision.
If you're going to be making a left turn at an intersection or driveway just a block ahead, you are better to stay in the left lane for that block rather than make two lanes changes (one to the right lane, and one shortly after to get back to the left lane for the turn) in that distance. It's more predictable for other traffic that way and avoids risk inherent in any lane change in a congested urban driving environment.
Through traffic on highways is something else, but on busy city surface streets there should be little significant speed differential, so if traffic is coming up fast behind you and you are already at or near the speed limit, the problem is their problem and not yours.
Nobody should be expected to dive for the right lane so some impatient fast-approaching moron can blast by them at high speed differentials. It only increases risk for everyone, just as the four moronic riders on the 404 risked the safety of everyone around them with their dangerous stupidity.
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Face
Well-known member
Agreed that you have a right to be in the left lane if you are making a left turn a short distance away. I don't agree that you should stay in the left lane if someone comes up behind, you are not turning left soon, and there is space to safely move to the right. Firstly, no one said anything about fast. Doesn't matter if its a 2 kph, 5 kph, 10 kph (45 vs 55 in a 50) difference, are you saying as an ex police officer that you think the person behind should just sit there and cause congestion, or are you advocating passing on the right as an appropriate course of action to resolve "their problem"?
Define "not turning left soon".
The reality of city traffic is that moving to a right lane at any relatively short distance before an intended left turn means that you may likely not be able to get back into that left lane to make that left turn you were planning. The impatient moron behind you can wait for a block or so without experiencing any significant delay in their travel.
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The "every lane change is a potential for collision" thing is exactly the same excuse I've heard drivers use for not moving over on highways and some of them told me that's what they were told in driving school.
When I commute to work there's a few long 2 lane boulevards and the worst thing that happens is two drivers pretending to be transport trucks driving well under the limit, neck and neck together, totally ignorant of a massive line up of cars behind them. If they kept right lane discipline on these types of roads traffic would flow much better.
I agree that on city streets with frequent turns and corners it's not as practical though.
When I commute to work there's a few long 2 lane boulevards and the worst thing that happens is two drivers pretending to be transport trucks driving well under the limit, neck and neck together, totally ignorant of a massive line up of cars behind them. If they kept right lane discipline on these types of roads traffic would flow much better.
I agree that on city streets with frequent turns and corners it's not as practical though.
That's why people are supposed to do a shoulder check *before they even put their signal on*, then signal if safe, i.e no one approaching/passing/too close, *then shoulder check again*, then change lanes..."in safe", not just toss a signal on and change lanes like many if not most it seems at times do.
They should move over *asap*, in a safe manner, not "passively agressively" sit there for miles at a time either.
Talking about city streets, not highway. "Miles at a time" seldom comes up in city surface street driving, just as left turns and driveways seldom come up on most 400 series highways.
Even there though, if traffic is lined up solid in all lanes, moving or not, why should someone on a highway already at or near full capacity be expected to shunt over into a small gap to their right so the one behind can move up ONE space in an already well-occupied lane? Ever hear about moving with the flow of heavy traffic, rather than trying to force your way through a heavy crowd?
kiwi
Well-known member
I did a quick look but couldnt find it right now, but downunder (NZ) you can get a ticket if you have more than 6 cars behind you and are travelling well below the speed limit. Ie. 100km/hr is national speed limit. If you're under 80k/hr or so and have a line of traffic, you are expected to pull over and yeid way to them.
Its usually the tourists that cause this backup, as NZers are generally not slow drivers.
Yes, Passing on the left etc..
BUT< the limit is 100kmh , average speed on the highway is 130khm. Which means, i you want to make a pass,
you get nailed HTA 172 and road side execution.
So end result is either everyone spreads out across all lanes doing 100-110kmh, pretty much eliminating lane changes and traffic flow.
OR
on highways like the 407, you get the same spread out effect, except everyone stays keeps left lane clear (pretty much reducing the highway by one lane) because they're scared and know police target the left lane and will nail them for doing
130-140. it's retarded!
I have been on the 407 doing 130, and being PASSED by the majority of drivers, who were doing 10ish
there was a speed trap and because i drive an orange car even though i was in the middle of 7 or 8 cars, with 3 cars in front of mine as i had cruise control turned and just going with the flow.
i got pulled over by OPP and given a speech for being a danger driving at such high speeds, doing 138kmh when limit is 100kmh.
BUT< the limit is 100kmh , average speed on the highway is 130khm. Which means, i you want to make a pass,
you get nailed HTA 172 and road side execution.
So end result is either everyone spreads out across all lanes doing 100-110kmh, pretty much eliminating lane changes and traffic flow.
OR
on highways like the 407, you get the same spread out effect, except everyone stays keeps left lane clear (pretty much reducing the highway by one lane) because they're scared and know police target the left lane and will nail them for doing
130-140. it's retarded!
I have been on the 407 doing 130, and being PASSED by the majority of drivers, who were doing 10ish
there was a speed trap and because i drive an orange car even though i was in the middle of 7 or 8 cars, with 3 cars in front of mine as i had cruise control turned and just going with the flow.
i got pulled over by OPP and given a speech for being a danger driving at such high speeds, doing 138kmh when limit is 100kmh.
Face
Well-known member
Yes I'm talking about city streets, and not when they're bumper to bumper well below the posted limit. We're talking about some person going at or a few kph below the limit sitting in the left lane with a big gap in front of him/her. If they're beside someone and people are coming up behind, they should either move forward and pull in front, or drop in behind to let people go by. If there's a gap beside, they should pull over to the right to allow others to pass, not either block traffic or force people to pass on the right.
This is basic rules of the road stuff. I can't believe that you would even question it.
Basic rule of the road is travel with the flow, not bully your way through it. Another basic rule of the road is to position yourself in the appropriate lane for your intended turn well in advance of your turn rather than disrupt traffic in your lane and the one you want into by trying to force your way over immediately before your turn. This also applies to left turns.
That's pretty basic rules of the road stuff. I can't believe you would even question it.
Face
Well-known member
So in your mind, how many kilometers is "well in advance"? I seem to recall that if you are 1 person in a car, you can only pull into a right HOV lane to turn right 300 m before the intersection. So should the same apply to blocking traffic in the left lane?
I didn't say kilometers and kilometers would not apply to most city driving anyways. It would depend on traffic volume and the availability of gaps to pull into that left lane.
A block ahead is reasonable, and if traffic is very congested perhaps even more than that. If traffic is that congested, you wanting traffic to part like the Red Sea so you can blast through is a complete non-starter anyways. Your wish to travel faster does not trump the need of other drivers to properly position themselves for a turn in advance of reaching their turn.
Face
Well-known member
So you agree that if traffic is not very congested, and if you're not turning left within a block, and if you can do so safely, you should pull over to the right to allow traffic behind you to pass. Glad we cleared that up. That being said, this is Toronto and I certainly don't expect it to happen. But I am pleasantly surprised when it does. I guess some people still know how to share the road.
Sorry everyone else, lets get back to the guys doing 192 on the 404.
Dirty Frank
Well-known member
We should all feel safer now....
Where is the damn sarcasm icon?
Where is the damn sarcasm icon?
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