Fort McMurray

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They passed a cowboy hat around tonight and raised around $500, which I understand will be doubled somehow.
GreyGhost said:
Interesting article in the spec about the insurance aftermath of slave Lake. http://m.thespec.com/news-story/654...-insurance-lessons-for-fort-mcmurray-evacuees Tl:Dr they offered a guy 280k for losing everything and eventually settled for 770k. Bastards, if the initial offer is half reasonable, it shouldn't be possible to triple it and arrive at a fair number.
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They gave him 840k?
 
Baggsy said:
They passed a cowboy hat around tonight and raised around $500, which I understand will be doubled somehow. They gave him 840k?
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Loosely tripled. 770/280=2.75x. The point being, everybody expects a low initial offer, but if the number that both parties can live with is 770, the low initial offer should have been north of 600.
 
just a question
Will they rebuild these areas?
What happens if the same thing happens 2 years later and so on?
Reminds me of ppl living in TORNADO ALLEY...every 2 years or so, blown away, rebuild, blown away etc...

If this is the new norm and we see just how easily fire spreads in the area then they need a whole new way to protect themselves.
 
Calgary is a good example of how it plays out. They mapped out new flood lines and people inside the lines get a single payout. If they choose to rebuild there and get wiped out again, it is the homeowners problem.

They could choose to leave a firebreak ring around the city and rebuild the rest. Obviously land is more available around Fort Mac, so the ring may be made outside of the current developed area to displace the fewest people.
 
GreyGhost said:
Calgary is a good example of how it plays out. They mapped out new flood lines and people inside the lines get a single payout. If they choose to rebuild there and get wiped out again, it is the homeowners problem.

They could choose to leave a firebreak ring around the city and rebuild the rest. Obviously land is more available around Fort Mac, so the ring may be made outside of the current developed area to displace the fewest people.
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Govt. might want to think about using the name Ring of Fire :(

Let's be real, you rebuild, things go bad again, tax payer will have to cover it somehow.

They have the equipment, start making lakes
 
They have lots of lakes and the Athabasca river runs right through the middle of town, but that doesn't help bone dry ground and trees. A defensible space around buldings is pretty common, but the town sits in a cluster of small steep hills not that easy. There will be rebuilding , but a lot of projects that were on the board stopped in 2014, many that left will not go back.

Many (thousands) need to start making long terms plans on what they will do, power and gas supply to the town has been shut down and will only come back on once engineers can check everything , then you need an engineer to sign off on your house if its had any damage, then try and hire contractors (that arent friggin criminals) . Many wont live there for months, maybe longer.

So you left a house with a full fridge and freezer, and for weeks there was no electrical power. EEwww.
 
These types of situations always seem to bring out the best in people. Some documented recent examples include free rides, free water in bottle form and, ironically, free gasoline. I don't think I could stand to watch an emotionally charged Rex Murphy commentary right now. I'd probably start wailing.
 
-D- said:
just a question
Will they rebuild these areas?
What happens if the same thing happens 2 years later and so on?
Reminds me of ppl living in TORNADO ALLEY...every 2 years or so, blown away, rebuild, blown away etc...

If this is the new norm and we see just how easily fire spreads in the area then they need a whole new way to protect themselves.
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Well there won't be any tree left for wildfire in the area after this and it will take decades to grow trees like that.
 
crankcall said:
They have lots of lakes and the Athabasca river runs right through the middle of town, but that doesn't help bone dry ground and trees. A defensible space around buldings is pretty common, but the town sits in a cluster of small steep hills not that easy. There will be rebuilding , but a lot of projects that were on the board stopped in 2014, many that left will not go back.

Many (thousands) need to start making long terms plans on what they will do, power and gas supply to the town has been shut down and will only come back on once engineers can check everything , then you need an engineer to sign off on your house if its had any damage, then try and hire contractors (that arent friggin criminals) . Many wont live there for months, maybe longer.

So you left a house with a full fridge and freezer, and for weeks there was no electrical power. EEwww.
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Thanks for the info. Let's hope the government do their part and resettle these people asap.
 
GixxerL2 said:
Well there won't be any tree left for wildfire in the area after this and it will take decades to grow trees like that.
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That whole area is boreal forest, and the weird thing about boreal forest is they are designed to burn , for thousands (millions) of years forest management has looked after itself by catching fire and regrowing. Its not those awesome BC trees that are hundreds of years old its 20-35ft lodgepole pine , spruce and mixed softwoods. In ten years it will look very similar.
We flew over Mt St Helens a week after the top erupted and it looked like a bomb blast, 8 years later when we were back it was hard to tell where the old growth/new growth line was.

We're just starting to understand that forest fires are a natural control, regrettably we build a lot of towns in the middle of the forest.
 
crankcall said:
That whole area is boreal forest, and the weird thing about boreal forest is they are designed to burn , for thousands (millions) of years forest management has looked after itself by catching fire and regrowing. Its not those awesome BC trees that are hundreds of years old its 20-35ft lodgepole pine , spruce and mixed softwoods. In ten years it will look very similar.
We flew over Mt St Helens a week after the top erupted and it looked like a bomb blast, 8 years later when we were back it was hard to tell where the old growth/new growth line was.

We're just starting to understand that forest fires are a natural control, regrettably we build a lot of towns in the middle of the forest.
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Also, some coniferous trees need fire to open up their cones so they can shed their seeds.
 
crankcall said:
That whole area is boreal forest, and the weird thing about boreal forest is they are designed to burn , for thousands (millions) of years forest management has looked after itself by catching fire and regrowing. Its not those awesome BC trees that are hundreds of years old its 20-35ft lodgepole pine , spruce and mixed softwoods. In ten years it will look very similar.
We flew over Mt St Helens a week after the top erupted and it looked like a bomb blast, 8 years later when we were back it was hard to tell where the old growth/new growth line was.

We're just starting to understand that forest fires are a natural control, regrettably we build a lot of towns in the middle of the forest.
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Yep part of the ecosystem
 
crankcall said:
That whole area is boreal forest, and the weird thing about boreal forest is they are designed to burn , for thousands (millions) of years forest management has looked after itself by catching fire and regrowing. Its not those awesome BC trees that are hundreds of years old its 20-35ft lodgepole pine , spruce and mixed softwoods. In ten years it will look very similar.
We flew over Mt St Helens a week after the top erupted and it looked like a bomb blast, 8 years later when we were back it was hard to tell where the old growth/new growth line was.

We're just starting to understand that forest fires are a natural control, regrettably we build a lot of towns in the middle of the forest.
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matthew said:
Also, some coniferous trees need fire to open up their cones so they can shed their seeds.
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Yet I've already come across a few articles blaming this on climate change; global warming; anthropogenic influences... get ready for the forest fire reduction tax boys and girls
 
Its may not so much be climate change causing the fires, but the severity of the fires are getting worse. The 30d heat and 50-60km winds are pretty unusual for places like Ft Mac the first week in May.

My son was on the media bus with Premier Notley touring Ft MAc yesterday, told me last night the pictures look awful, but nothing compared to the actual devastation.
 
Need better cameras.
 
I'm not sure its the image quality, I think its more the emotional overwhelming of people that haven't seen that level of distress. My son is a journalist and has lived through a LaBiche fire last month and is now covering the Mac fire, but hes 24 and isn't immune yet, and has a personal connection since his sister was in it. She drove through the fire zone twice leaving and isnt ready to go back yet. I understand people living in crisis zones eventually stop seeing the crisis, business as usual.

I also get your just being you, shine on you crazy diamond.
 
crankcall said:
I'm not sure its the image quality, I think its more the emotional overwhelming of people that haven't seen that level of distress. My son is a journalist and has lived through a LaBiche fire last month and is now covering the Mac fire, but hes 24 and isn't immune yet, and has a personal connection since his sister was in it. She drove through the fire zone twice leaving and isnt ready to go back yet. I understand people living in crisis zones eventually stop seeing the crisis, business as usual.

I also get your just being you, shine on you crazy diamond.
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Changing the camera focal length can alter perceptions, one of the problems with things like GoPro recordings and watching NASCAR on TV. It's easy to say "Why didn't they just......"

If a picture is worth a thousand words an experience must be worth a thousand pictures.
 
crankcall said:
Its may not so much be climate change causing the fires, but the severity of the fires are getting worse. The 30d heat and 50-60km winds are pretty unusual for places like Ft Mac the first week in May.

My son was on the media bus with Premier Notley touring Ft MAc yesterday, told me last night the pictures look awful, but nothing compared to the actual devastation.
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But in Ontario we're getting lows compared to the normal
 
crankcall said:
Its may not so much be climate change causing the fires, but the severity of the fires are getting worse. The 30d heat and 50-60km winds are pretty unusual for places like Ft Mac the first week in May.

My son was on the media bus with Premier Notley touring Ft MAc yesterday, told me last night the pictures look awful, but nothing compared to the actual devastation.
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After 2011 and slave lake, a committee was commissioned by the Alberta government to try and identify possible solutions to the threat of wildfires in northern communities. Synopsis, the forest has become over mature due to aggressive fire suppression programs and is thus become more combustible than it naturally would be. The report goes on to make numerous recommendations. The author of this article is unsure which if any where followed. I will say I've seen a few rumblings that many of them were not, but I've not found hard evidence to support that yet so take it with a grain of salt.

“Before major wildfire-suppression programs, boreal forests historically burned on an average cycle ranging from 50 to 200 years as a result of lightning and human-caused wildfires,” the panel said in a report released in 2012.
Wildfire suppression has significantly reduced the area burned in Alberta’s boreal forest. However, due to reduced wildfire activity, forests of Alberta are aging, which ultimately changes ecosystems and is beginning to increase the risk of large and potentially costly catastrophic wildfires.”

Source: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/albertas-aging-forests-increase-risk-of-catastrophic-fires-2012-report
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Here's some more from an opinion piece (with some corroborating data) arguing against the 'climate change made this fire so devastating' position

Forestry experts are well aware that wildfire suppression, which started to become common after the war, simply increases the amount of combustible material in forests, thus making fires much more powerful.
And as Bernie Schmitte, forestry manager in Fort McMurray, explained:
“The boreal forest is a fire-dependant ecosystem. The spruce trees, pine trees, they like to burn,”
“They have to burn to regenerate themselves, and those species have adapted themselves to fire. Their cones have adapted so they open up after the fire has left, and the trees have adapted in that once they’re old and need to be replaced, they’re available to fire so they burn.”
There is a much bigger proportion of older trees now because of earlier fire suppression, and it is these that are most combustible.

source: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/05/08/albertas-wildfire/
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One last thing I've been musing over is fire breaks. I've read that not only was there little to none surrounding Ft. McMurray, but they have actually been planting trees along the highways and throughout town as a way to try and appease the eco-extremist and combat the eco-disaster image of the oil sands. This despite better fire prevention (ie fire breaks etc) being strongly recommended around communities after Slave Lake.. Again, lacking hard source, so if anybody can add to that, feel free.
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