Ford killing off a few dinosaurs.

[Rob MacLennan]

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Small Sprinter FTW

The small Sprinter is still too big, for use as a daily driver. What I like about the Transit Connect is that it isn't a whole lot bigger than my Mazda 5 and gets pretty close to the same mileage, but can hold a lot more. If it was a bit bigger it would hold a bike but, given it's current size, it would still be useful for my photography. I could kit it out as a rolling office.

 

[Gummiente]

15,000 jobs lost... that is the real tragedy in this story.

 

[fastar1]

15,000 jobs lost... that is the real tragedy in this story.

The jobs were just relocated. It's not like people who were going to buy a Crown Vic will decide not to buy a car now because the plant shut down.

That's why the real story is "what will they replace it with?"

 

[Gary]

The jobs were just relocated.

Wrong, very wrong.
When a particular 'model' goes out of production, there is usually a replacement for it at the location.
St Thomas is NOT replacing the Crown Vic - the plant / property is to be sold.......i.e. no more Ford products will be built there.

There were a handful of St Thomas workers offered jobs at other locations, such as Oakville Assembly, but since they still have a few on layoff, the St Thomas carry overs will have to wait.
Some senior workers opted for a buy out. The rest are UNemployed.

 

[Gummiente]

Wrong, very wrong.
When a particular 'model' goes out of production, there is usually a replacement for it at the location.
St Thomas is NOT replacing the Crown Vic - the plant / property is to be sold.......i.e. no more Ford products will be built there.

There were a handful of St Thomas workers offered jobs at other locations, such as Oakville Assembly, but since they still have a few on layoff, the St Thomas carry overs will have to wait.
Some senior workers opted for a buy out. The rest are UNemployed.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who does a little research first before posting a response.

 

[F4IZZY]

I read in the paper that the current crown vic couldnt even pass Canadian Safety Standards (perhaps even North American Standards) and was sold to a buyer in Dubai. So who's fault is it technically? I dont know Ford's long term agenda but cant pass safety standards? What was ford thinking?

 

[fastar1]

Wrong, very wrong.
When a particular 'model' goes out of production, there is usually a replacement for it at the location.
St Thomas is NOT replacing the Crown Vic - the plant / property is to be sold.......i.e. no more Ford products will be built there.

There were a handful of St Thomas workers offered jobs at other locations, such as Oakville Assembly, but since they still have a few on layoff, the St Thomas carry overs will have to wait.
Some senior workers opted for a buy out. The rest are UNemployed.

I keep forgetting that I need to drawe pictures for people. My bad.

People who would have purchased a Crown Vic will purchase another vehicle instead. Those models will see an increase in production and therefore an increase in employment. Elsewhere. That's how the jobs get relocated. The new jobs may be in Indonesia or Brazil, or Canada, depending on which models people buy in place of the Crown Vic.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who does a little research first before posting a response.

No amount of research can substitute a proper thought process.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I keep forgetting that I need to drawe pictures for people. My bad.

People who would have purchased a Crown Vic will purchase another vehicle instead. Those models will see an increase in production and therefore an increase in employment. Elsewhere. That's how the jobs get relocated. The new jobs may be in Indonesia or Brazil, or Canada, depending on which models people buy in place of the Crown Vic.

No amount of research can substitute a proper thought process.

If the jobs are in Brazil or Indonesia then it doesn't do a whole lot for Canada, where the jobs have been lost. For now, they are gone from here.

 

[Gummiente]

If the jobs are in Brazil or Indonesia then it doesn't do a whole lot for Canada, where the jobs have been lost. For now, they are gone from here.

Speaking of having to draw pictures for people... :lol:

 

[fastar1]

If the jobs are in Brazil or Indonesia then it doesn't do a whole lot for Canada, where the jobs have been lost. For now, they are gone from here.

Those job losses only impact the immediate community, and only for those people who don't find new jobs. I certainly won't notice the effects amongst all the other economic changes that take place in Ontario this year, I will continue to produce and consume as much as I would otherwise do. On the grand scale the jobs losses aren't tragic to Canada, they're just part of the continuous change that affect the economic cycle.

As far as the local impact, again the question is what vehicles will people buy to replace the Crown Vics? Here's a new type of vehicle that would be a good substitute vehicle for for taxi fleets; http://www.vpgautos.com/

It uses the Windsor-built Ford 4.6L engine. So, if old Crown Vic customers buy these instead, they will continue to support that local economy.

Those job loses are only a "tragedy for the country" if you wear blinders. The big picture will tell the whole story.

 

[Gary]

I read in the paper that the current crown vic couldnt even pass Canadian Safety Standards (perhaps even North American Standards) and was sold to a buyer in Dubai. So who's fault is it technically? I dont know Ford's long term agenda but cant pass safety standards? What was ford thinking?

Technically - it's the Cdn Govt's fault, assuming what you say is true - a link would have helped.
Before a vehicle can be sold to the public, it really does go through rigorous testing, and is not allowed to fail ANY guide lines set out by the govt, here, and where the unit will be sold.
Numerous things are missed, as we all know. Surely you've heard of recalls from every auto maker?
It took Ford over 8 yrs to get the Windstar on the road. One thing after another failed govt testing.
It was in development in 1986, and was known as the "Win 88" as it was supposed to hit the streets in 1988. By the time they satisfied the govt, the 1st units weren't available until 1993, as 1994 models.

I could go on, but losing Cdn jobs is not in our best interest, as fastar would have you believe.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Those job losses only impact the immediate community, and only for those people who don't find new jobs. I certainly won't notice the effects amongst all the other economic changes that take place in Ontario this year, I will continue to produce and consume as much as I would otherwise do. On the grand scale the jobs losses aren't tragic to Canada, they're just part of the continuous change that affect the economic cycle.

As far as the local impact, again the question is what vehicles will people buy to replace the Crown Vics? Here's a new type of vehicle that would be a good substitute vehicle for for taxi fleets; http://www.vpgautos.com/

It uses the Windsor-built Ford 4.6L engine. So, if old Crown Vic customers buy these instead, they will continue to support that local economy.

Those job loses are only a "tragedy for the country" if you wear blinders. The big picture will tell the whole story.

You are oh, so wrong. This creates a situation, in which more money is leaving Canada. This effects the nation, not just the "immediate community." It's a cumulative effect. That's the big picture, that tells the whole story. You don't seem to realize that you've got the blinders on

 

[fastar1]

You are oh, so wrong. This creates a situation, in which more money is leaving Canada. This effects the nation, not just the "immediate community." It's a cumulative effect. That's the big picture, that tells the whole story. You don't seem to realize that you've got the blinders on

Jobs come and go. Do you seriously expect that any country can ever expect only jobs gains, never jobs losses? Of course that's impossible on the whole for the country, and even less so for individual employers like this one. It's "not good" only IF the jobs aren't made up elsewhere, and IF those who are left without jobs end up destitute. To describe these losses as a tragedy, one would have to assume that those are two inevitable consequences of the job losses and they're not.

Jobs come and go. It's an inherent attribute of the interdependent, specialised economy we have built for ourselves. You can't just look at the jobs going and declare a problem without also considering any jobs created, and the real effects on the people involved. If you really think it's a tragedy to lose any jobs at any time, then you probably have to question globalisation and specialisation of labour, immigration, and free trade. Otherwise, it is what it is. Sucks for those out of a job but they'll manage for the most part.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Jobs come and go. Do you seriously expect that any country can ever expect only jobs gains, never jobs losses? Of course that's impossible on the whole for the country, and even less so for individual employers like this one. It's not good only IF the jobs aren't made up elsewhere, and IF those who are left without jobs end up destitute. To describe these losses as a tragedy, one would have to assume that those are two inevitable consequences of the job losses and they're not.

Jobs come and go. It's an inherent attribute of the interdependent, specialised economy we have built for ourselves. You can't just look at the jobs going and declare a problem without also considering any jobs created, and the real effects on the people involved. If you really think it's a tragedy to lose any jobs at any time, then you probably have to question globalisation and specialisation of labour, immigration, and free trade. Otherwise, it is what it is. Sucks for those out of a job but they'll manage for the most part.

Just because such things are fluid, that does not imply that we should be happy, or even merely overlook, the fact that it is a loss to our economy. Manufacturing jobs are leaving Canada. As a producer and exporter of natural resources if we don't turn those raw materials into finished products, we end up buying our own resources while sending money elsewhere. That's a losing proposition.

 

[fastar1]

Just because such things are fluid, that does not imply that we should be happy, or even merely overlook, the fact that it is a loss to our economy. Manufacturing jobs are leaving Canada. As a producer and exporter of natural resources if we don't turn those raw materials into finished products, we end up buying our own resources while sending money elsewhere. That's a losing proposition.

Absolutely, it shouldn't be overlooked at all. It simply shouldn't be taken into consideration in isolation of all other events that shape our economy. The loss of manufacturing jobs overall is a better example of a big picture view. Or the even bigger picture of our over-reliance on the export of raw materials is a problem. While retaining those factory jobs would reduce the problem, we can still never expect to retain every job with the economic tides. So the job losses are not the problem, and certainly not a tragedy. The big picture is a problem, and the only tragedy would be if any of those unemployed end up living on the streets.

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