Fined 155$, unsafe left turn...

[EngineerJoe]

So stupidity and negligence causing death is $155 but wheelies (which I think is stupid to do on any highway), or squeeling your tires is 7+ license suspension, vehicle impounded and up to a $10,000 fine... I swear this province is run by idiots.

Look at it this way. If the rider was driving a car, he'd still be alive and most likely uninjured. Fact is he was riding a motorcycle. He chose to operate a vehicle that offers no protection. I'm not saying that makes it right that the car killed the rider due to driver error, it just boils down to the simplest interpretation of traffic laws. Unless the driver intended to run down the motorcyclist, the charge is appropriate. Really, what do you people think the driver deserves? Second degree murder?

Agreed... any pedestrian in a cross-walk is fair game too.

It's been said before and it's true. If you want to murder someone in this province, do it with your vehicle and you'll likely get off.

 

[nobbie48]

I don't know all the facts as I wasn't in court to hear the testimony. Believing that the press is presenting the unbiased truth is like believing in the tooth fairy.

However I don't understand the lack of a more serious charge. If a person breaks the law carefully ie stopping for a red light at 3:00 AM and checking for other vehicles, then cautiously proceeding they have still broken the law. However there is no careless factor so make it a slap on the wrist.

It is an entirely different matter when the driver interferes with another vehicle whether it results in a collision or not. Since care was not taken why not in that case make a careless driving charge?

 

[Metastable]

Well dangerous driving charge may have stuck better than Careless. Because if you can prove you were TRYING to be careful and you hit and killed someone, you might get off completely. "BUT I DIDN'T SEE HIM! Oh dear me my boo hoo hoo I'm so sad, but how could I have avoided him if I looked and didn't see him coming. I was looking right that way... boo hooo...."

Crock of poopies, but you get my drift. It has to be more than just a turning ticket for crying out loud!

 

[nanobots]

I would really like some follow up information to these two "accidents" for lack of a better term. I cant find anything.....

It makes me sick when someone is not paying attention, and almost causes a life threatening mistake on the road. I feel scared sometimes to maintain proper blocking position when I see pickup trucks blazing down beside me +30, in the next lane, fearing they might drift off into my lane. Not to mention people waiting to making a right onto a main road at too fast of a speed making a wide turn.

 

[Aslan]

I would really like some follow up information to these two "accidents" for lack of a better term. I cant find anything.....

Collisions.

 

[Baggsy]

So if someone is walking across the street with the right of way and someone makes a left turn and hits the pedestrian while crossing the sidewalk and kills them...only a $155 fine is ok with you? That person made the decision to just walk and not drive or take the bus. Or should everyone just stay in their house because of bad drivers?

It's been said that it's safer to drive than to walk if you're drunk.

We don't know all the circumstances of the accident.

It's not like someone rushing to catch the light hasn't intersected with someone turning after they thought that the light has changed before.

 

[fuzion]

It makes me sick when someone is not paying attention, and almost causes a life threatening mistake on the road. I feel scared sometimes to maintain proper blocking position when I see pickup trucks blazing down beside me +30, in the next lane, fearing they might drift off into my lane. Not to mention people waiting to making a right onto a main road at too fast of a speed making a wide turn.

agreed

blocking position makes perfect sense in theory
but on the streets of toronto, its every rider for themselves

i'm not going to maintain blocking position if i feel my life could possibly be at risk

i find myself riding in the middle of the the lane most of the time now

 

[ride2rideagain]

if it's car on car, it would've been an improper left and $155, it should be the same in this case. It is unfortunate that the riders died but we are making the choice to ride motorcycles and then asking for different treatment in terms of laws. Parking is free and that already such a great privilege, now we want people that made mistakes while driving to be charged really bad just because we were on a bike. Had they been drunk or on their phone or driving recklessly, a worse charged would've been applied, but just because someone did not see you (a very common thing and probably the first thing covered in a riders safety course probably accompanied with a video) and made a mistake, doesn't mean it should be dangerous driving or any of the other outcomes discussed in the thread. Still, unfortunate that the riders died, R.I.P.

I think awareness is the only thing that can save motorcyclists....be aware, keep looking and think of every ride as a battle against GTA cagers. Look to see who's planning to take you out. See a car ready to come on to the main street making a right from a driveway or small street, slow down/switch lanes give them room and be ready to brake....same goes for going straight through every intersection, assume a cage turning left will try and kill you and be ready. Look out for crazy drivers and people and cell phones and stay the F*** away from them.....etc. etc. etc. You guys know how it goes. Still may not be enough but will definitely help. Be safe out there fellas.

 

[SkyRider]

If its car on car, chances are no one will die. So a ticket is sufficient. But car on bike a rider did die. The difference is quite clear. Can't believe u can't tell the difference.

Or what if it's car on car but a baby dies in the passenger seat? If an idiot can't even fuking see a rider (cars as well) coming up then the driver has no right to be on the roads. Causing someone's death and just getting a ticket is BS. Makes no sense that a regular collision with no death and one death get the same punishment? That's like saying an assault charge and a murder charge both should get the same sentence.

Just wait until a judge or a politicians son/relative get killed by a left turn cager then harsher punishments will get handed down.

 

[rafiki911]

155$ definitely doesn't cover how much it actually costs to send the following to a scene of such accident:

- multiple police cruisers to block/route traffic and create a perimeter
- an ambulance (or two)
- a firetruck full of firemen (not all accident scenes have firetrucks, but still)
- two tow trucks (or more) to take the damaged vehicles away (although the insurance pays them)
- if there's a fatality, some forensics people to take pictures and try and analyze skidmarks, visibility, etc...(all that other CSI stuff)


Can anyone else guess where the balance comes from?

Am i crazy here to think that if someone is charged with something such as an improper left turn and it causes an accident, they should foot the bill for all the services that were dispatched to take care of the scene? Wouldn't that slightly reduce the strain on our tax dollar?
Heck, if that person would of paid attention and went when it was safe, none of the above would need to be sent out.

Damn, I like that idea. A bill that big is a bigger deturant than getting charged

Their insurance would cover all of the above so it would have little affect on the driver. I agree that something with much larger consequences than unsafe left turn is warranted in these situations, but in Ontario they have been very consistent with this charge.

Insurance does not cover the emergency services... our taxes do. Oh and we also pay an extra $45 if we take an ambulance. I wonder if you die does your family get the ambulance bill or does it get waved??? I couldn't imagine having someone die in my fam then get a bill a few months later in the mail.

Quite a number of US jurisdictions have been putting in minimum (read: larger) penalties for being at fault in a right-of-way violation which results in death or injury. The message is simple: PAY ATTENTION.

Ontario has not followed suit. If I had my 'druthers, I'd revoke the huge penalties in the "street racing" section and replace them with huge penalties for being at-fault in a right-of-way violation resulting in death or injury. Driver's license suspended for at least a certain minimum and then beyond that until such time as you pay the fine. Kill someone else with your vehicle? Your driver's license is done. END.

I'd like to see this here as well. People don't understand the effects of a collision until they are in one. Family's lives are changed not just the victims. With the rise of how many collisions are everyday something needs to be done to lower the numbers.

 

[GreyGhost]

Insurance does not cover the emergency services... our taxes do.

I was under the impression that an emergency services call in your home region (ie. the region you officially reside and pay taxes in) is free, while outside of your home region you are sent a bill (i.e. $500/ fire truck) as you do not pay taxes in that region. If you claim with insurance, they pick up this bill.

See this thread for more info.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...on&highlight=received+emergency+services+bill

 

[rafiki911]

I was under the impression that an emergency services call in your home region (ie. the region you officially reside and pay taxes in) is free, while outside of your home region you are sent a bill (i.e. $500/ fire truck) as you do not pay taxes in that region. If you claim with insurance, they pick up this bill.
See this thread for more info.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...on&highlight=received+emergency+services+bill

Nope EMS is not free. I've received bills the both times I went to a hospital in an Ambulance in my area and the hospital was also in my area. Insurance would probably cover the $45 ( I think it's more now)charge that you get but it doesn't not pay for the fire trucks and cruisers and investigations...the tax payer does.

That thread is refering to false calls. Like if you report a fire when there isn't you pay for all the fire trucks showing up. Not sure why the op of that thread got the bill when he didn't call. The 9-1-1 dispatchers would have the information of the person that made the emergency call in.

 

[unL33T]

Yep. I don't understand why doing a burnout or a wheelie which harms no one but maybe has potential to if you **** up costs thousands of dollars and gets your vehicle and license taken but killing someone is only worth $155.

The fine must be higher in TO or it was raised recently. A classmate was killed in college when a woman made a left in front of him. Dead on the scene. She got a $90 fine. He wasn't even speeding.

 

[omnivore]

The best part about these left turn into motorcycle's path accidents......" I didn't see him officer".......Isn't that your job and duty as a driver? To see? To pay attention? And if you don't, you need to be held accountable. If you did a rolling stop over a 5 yrold kid on his way to school, wouldn't you get charged with something more than $155?

Now on the other hand, if the left turning cage caused the very same accident with a Ford F150, a fine of $155 might seem appropiate. Problem is that in both instances, accident with bike or truck, the actions of the erronous driver would be the same....can we really justify trumping up a charge dependant on what vehicle the victim decides to operate that day?

Maybe the charge should be tougher, no matter what the victim drives. If failing to yeild right-of-way carried heavier penalties, maybe people would be more cautious.

 

[[evo]]

riding is dangerous, yet we choose to do it..

condolences to the family

 

[kickstartt]

thats why u sue their arses, the fine is only the beginning

 

[Gnu]

Look at it this way. If the rider was driving a car, he'd still be alive and most likely uninjured. Fact is he was riding a motorcycle. He chose to operate a vehicle that offers no protection. I'm not saying that makes it right that the car killed the rider due to driver error, it just boils down to the simplest interpretation of traffic laws. Unless the driver intended to run down the motorcyclist, the charge is appropriate. Really, what do you people think the driver deserves? Second degree murder?

And you think if that was a cop on the motorcycle, it would still be a $155 fine? Please, your "logic" is full of fail.

 

[GayManLoveIsOK]

i would love to see, in this type of case specifically, a 5 year ban on driving (automatic), stiff fines, possible jail time...now to combat the folks that just get back on the road without a drivers license, automatic jail time for 30 days, no excuses, and even stiffer fines...i find today, too many people will weasel their way out of a system, and at some point i think the foot needs to be put down...