Because what you wrote can be intrepreted as take out a 12 year loan if they offer it. Based on your last post, that is not what you meant.
Finance or Lease - Hybrid vehicle
- Thread starter EC2010
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Because what you wrote can be intrepreted as take out a 12 year loan if they offer it. Based on your last post, that is not what you meant.
J_F
Guest
yup, figured what you typed and what you meant were not the same
make as many payments as you can = longer term
you want to make as few as you can afford
"if you need to finance, find the lowest rate possible"
"or line of credit and make as many payment as you can"
not sure how one can interpret this any other way.
the lowest finance rate is self explanatory. the LOC, pay the damn thing off as fast as you can.
"or line of credit and make as many payment as you can"
not sure how one can interpret this any other way.
the lowest finance rate is self explanatory. the LOC, pay the damn thing off as fast as you can.
(Sigh)
The same old song and dance any actual EV owner has heard a million times.
Except not based in realty, at least for any good EV with thermal battery maintenance.
My 7 year old Volt with 135,000KM on it got 69 KM on its (cough) “Old worn out” battery last week.
My wife’s 6 year old Volt with 180,000KM on it got 71KM on its “worn out” battery as well. And I have the photos to prove it.
And these are cars rated for 55Km when they were new.
The FUD misinformation based on scary what-iffs and misunderstandings continues.
Punctuation fail. There was no punctuation tying LOC to making many payments. It could be interpreted as lowest rate possible and LOC were the connected concepts and many payments applied to both.
But the internets says so PP. Someones brothers sons friend knows someone who had a bad experience with some kind of battery. /sarcasm
Indeed. The world of EV misinformation is loaded with “But I saw a story in the internet!” tales of impending doom and gloom. Except it’s rarely factual if you bother looking.
Comparing cheap laptop and cheap Chinese garbage vape batteries to what’s in a modern EV, chemical composition aside, is also apples and oranges.
Quality, thermal management, and how the EV handles its battery (IE never charging to 100%, and never discharging to 0%) all make for longevity that is proving to match and exceed the longevity of traditional drivetrains.
Facts.
Just bear in mind that they're not all like that. GM did a very good job with the Volt (and I'm pretty sure the Bolt, although it's early to tell for sure). Toyota did a very good job with Hybrid Synergy Drive (same system on all Toyota hybrids differing only in size and power ratings).
Nissan Leaf, and VW e-golf, and probably a few others, have no thermal management for their batteries. The Leaf is known to have battery degradation in some circumstances, evidently in hot climates and if fast-charging is used frequently. The new one didn't fix this. The VW e-Golf hasn't sold in sufficient numbers to know whether it has the same issue.
Honda had a lot of trouble with IMA, and it remains to be seen whether their new hybrid system (which functions completely differently) fixes this.
Others, aside from Tesla, have sold in too few numbers to make a proper assessment. Tesla reliability is, ummm, not the best.
I will agree with all the above, albeit I will stand fast that comparing EV batteries to the ones in laptop / vape / hover board (for example) service is a false equivalency.
Like all batteries, quality and how they’re used matters a lot.
LiPO’s are also used in model aeronautics a whole lot - I’ve seen packs last 1 week, and I’ve seen packs last many years. It’s all in how they are used and taken care of, as well as their initial quality.
Like all batteries, quality and how they’re used matters a lot.
LiPO’s are also used in model aeronautics a whole lot - I’ve seen packs last 1 week, and I’ve seen packs last many years. It’s all in how they are used and taken care of, as well as their initial quality.
JTR
Well-known member
The way the computer controls charging, yes, they can last longer in a car. However, they are indeed the same cells. And no my laptop can not live for 20 minutes off the charger. Just because you're a volt fanboy, don't pretend that the magical batteries in that car are going to last forever. They are going to fail, it's a guarantee, and they won't be cheap. BTW, you aren't an actual EV owner, we went through this before. You have hybrids. Your cars have gas tanks and exhaust pipes. As long as that is a truth, no ev.
I love Teslas, I follow Elon on twitter, he's annoying af tweeting at all hours of the night, I guess you could call me a tesla fanboy. However, I am not delusional enough to think that even his special proprietary magic batteries are going to last forever, and I definitely wouldn't want to be holding the hot potato when the music stops.
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JTR
Well-known member
Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic. Cheap chinese garbage batteries? now who's misinformed? BTW Lithium IMR/INR cell manufacturing happens in multi-billion dollar facilities, run only by the largest corporations in the world. You don't even know what's in your own car. EV and Hybrid battery PACKS are made up of bundles of 18650 lithium INR cells, produced by any one of the above mentioned 4 companies. Any cell that you see with a different name, is a rewrapped second(in some cases third), from one of those companies. Many people have actually salvaged failed EV and hybrid packs by eliminating the bad cells and saving the good ones, and using them to make their own version of a powerwall. Laptops typically use first quality, vape batteries will vary between first and second, with most people being educated away from risking using the trash rewrapped thirds(all of mine are first quality Sony, LG and Samsung) that are usually sold for flashlights. LiPo is different tech, and isn't generally used in 1:1 scale cars.
PP sometimes you have some good info, but then sometimes(whenever the precious volt is mentioned) you use emotion over research and spout opinions as fact. We get it, you love your hybrid. And that's ok, but make sure what you're saying is true, for example, the oldest commercial EV in existence, even if the last remaining example in the world wasn't in the basement of a museum, if it had been out in the world driving around after GM crushed all of the rest, still would not be old enough to prove a match to the longevity of a conventional drivetrain of which there are still 100yo examples operating today. That car was lead acid, I know, but even if it was lithium wouldn't be old enough yet.
Once again, I'm not taking stabs at evs and hybrids, just pointing out pure fallacies posted here.
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My original Macbook Core Duo, which admittedly did have a warranty battery replacement around 2009 (so the battery is now 9 years old) still has about 80% of it's capacity. That's where the quality bit comes in, and proper treatment of the battery.
No, you are not going to get the same sort of performance or reliability out of a $299 Walmart laptop the same as how you're not going to get a lifetime of reliability from a Hyosung vs a Honda.
Sure, eventually, but there's a good chance they will outlive the useful life of the car before such, so I don't care. There'a a Volt in the USA with over 700,000KM on it right now and still going on the original battery pack. There's tons of others with 300,000+, still running strong. I bet a EV with 300,000+ KM on it and a still demonstrably functional battery with a functional chunk of it's original range still intact will sell more than an old spent ICE equivalent vehicle.
Since most cars might average 300-400,000KM before the cost of repairs starts to exceeed the practicality of keeping it on the road, if the battery lasts that long I'll be satisfied. Ours will have paid for themselves several times over in gas savings by then.
And if one does need a replacement they're commonly available for about $1000 in scrapyards and the labour to swap them is about $700-$800.
I've spent more than that getting the transmissions rebuilt on several vehicles in my past.
To focus solely on the fallibility of the batteries on EV's is to wholesale dismiss the fallibility of internal combustion engines and related drivetrains on traditional cars, and since I don't see service facilities and transmission shops going out of business it seems they still have a customer base.
I just got an EMM (Engine maintenance mode) on my Volt which means the engine hadn't run in a month and the computer deemed it necessary to exercise it. Over that month the car went about 1500KM on pure electric. I have 5800KM on my current tank of gas (bought on April fools day) and still have just over half the tank remaining.
So split hairs if you will, but just because it's range extended with an engine doesn't make it any less of an EV than a Leaf or a Tesla when running in full battery mode. Perhaps you don't understand how the Volt works, but unlike some EV's (like the Clarity) that still need the engine to assist occasionally even when running in electric mode, the Volt runs as a 100% true EV until the battery is fully depleted.
Only once the battery is dead and the engine is running does it become a hybrid by the definition of the word.
The only manufacturer actually using 18650-format cells (round cylindrical of specified dimensions) in an automotive battery pack is Tesla. The others are specially manufactured as vehicle batteries. Article about the Volt's battery pack https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/chevy-volt-battery-pack-rugged-but-precise
If you don't spend $6000 in payments and the buyout is equal to what you didn't spend....it is equal. Feel free to correct me with math.
As for lithium.....If you think car companies can afford to have their batteries going belly up after 8 years and still have people buy more... The design for charging and discharging is unique to vehicles. Apple doesn't want your phone to last 4 years. How many Prius models do you think would have to catch fire before it were all over the internet?
The battery and motor are closed systems with no maintenance. How ofter do you replace a light switch? And possible.....look up the results. Things are as reliable as they are designed to be. The hybrid systems take wear and tear away from the gas engine. Those systems don't have to work as hard during their lifetime. Why are you even worried about what I believe. "That's not possible" is your belief. Thankfully your belief isn't what affects reality. Look it up.
The Volt can run to its top speed (150kph or something like that) solely on electric.
The 70 mph thing is only when you’re already in charge sustaining mode, ie the engine is already running.
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