Fight your ticket! Every ticket! Even your first ever ticket! | GTAMotorcycle.com

Fight your ticket! Every ticket! Even your first ever ticket!

toysareforboys

toysareforboys

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Ok people, it's time to sit you down for a reality lesson...

FIGHT YOUR TICKETS! All of them. Doesn't matter if it's speeding 3km/h over, if it's $65 "whops forgot my insurance card", etc. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

It doesn't matter if it's your first ticket ever, it DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE POINTS! It doesn't matter HOW MUCH IT COSTS FOR THE FINE OR HOW MUCH IT COSTS YOU TO FIGHT IT!

Please people, fight every single ticket. IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! Nothing else.

Taking a plea deal IS NOT FIGHTING IT! TAKE NO DEALS! EVER! No matter if they are willing to waive the fine, lose no points, lower it, etc. TAKE NO DEALS EVER!

Your insurance company ONLY CARES ABOUT CONVICTIONS! Headlights too blue? CONVICTION THE SAME AS SPEEDING 49KM/H OVER to your insurance company! Exhaust too loud? CONVICTION THE SAME AS SPEEDING 49KM/H to your insurance company. Forgot to renew your sticker or have expired insurance slip, etc. CONVICTION THE SAME AS SPEEDING 49KM/H to your insurance company. GET IT ALREADY? WAKE UP PEOPLE!

You want to keep EVERY SINGLE CHARGE from EVER showing up on your record!

If it's stuff like expired sticker, muffler too loud, headlights too blue, didn't have insurance/expired slip, non-signed ownership, etc. all you have to do IS GET THE CRAP FIXED and KEEP THE RECEIPT! Just plead "not guilty" and on your court date just take in the receipt AND A DATE/TIME STAMPED PHOTO OF THE BIKE/PLATE/OWNERSHIP/INSURANCE ETC FROM THE SAME DAY OR VERY NEXT DAY AFTER YOU GOT THE TICKET, of the item in its fixed state, to the prosecutor at the front of the court room. Tell him you "repaired" the problem and YOU WOULD LIKE THE CHARGES DISMISSED! They will 99% of the time do this. If he says "we'll waive the fine." NO WAY! DO NOT ACCEPT THIS! Tell him if he's not willing to dismiss the charges you're going to plead NOT GUILTY.

If it's for speeding or other things build a GOOD defense and plead not guilty. Remember... EVEN IF THEY GET RID OF THE FINES AND POINTS DON'T TAKE THE DEAL!

IT'S DISMISSED, OR FIND ME FULLY DAMN GUILTY! Those are the only two options, none else (except if it's stunting then sometimes a plea is best).

Sorry for the rant, I've just seen lots of bad advice going around lately =(

-Jamie M.
 
My cynical bone says that someone with lots and lots of tickets to fight, who's expecting to get more in the future would say that, hoping to score some 11b's.

My advice would be to not get tickets in the first place. It's not worth your time or money to fight them.

If you're getting lots of tickets, drive like a little old lady (but not my grandma), until you are off the police's radar, maybe take some private lessons to see what is attracting them to you.
 
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Come on Baggsy,

You know sometimes thats not always the case. Totally utopian thinking in this province, unless you drive like a granny :)

Regardless, I'm with Jamie on this, fight every freaking ticket, every freaking time. Prove my guilt or throw it out. The onus is on you to prove me guilty not on me to prove my innocence.

Beside, maybe the ticket I'm fighting today, ties up enough resources to get someone else off tomorrow.
 
It used to be that you were innocent unless you did it. Then it because innocent unless you were caught. Now it seems to be innocent unless you get convicted. But the pendulum has swung back in the other direction in response. In some cases now it's guilty if you are accused.
I get a ticket about once every 10 years, but I've seen others who were fighting 2 or 3 tickets get picked out of the middle of a group for speeding.

The typical government response to lots of people fighting tickets is to say that the police are spending too much time in court and not enough on the road. So they hire more police for the road. Since they are now taking more candidates, some of them are not ideal for police work and may slip through the cracks. Do you really want to continue us down this road by attempting to game the court system?

I'd rather that we improve our driving skills, so that people get along and traffic moves smoothly, we need less supervision by police, and we become a traffic utopia.
 
toysareforboys said:
Ok people, it's time to sit you down for a reality lesson...

FIGHT YOUR TICKETS! All of them. Doesn't matter if it's speeding 3km/h over, if it's $65 "whops forgot my insurance card", etc. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
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I agree 100%... Fight Fight Fight

It's your right as a Canadian citizen to have your case heard in front of a JP. It's the job of the cop to PROVE you did something wrong in front of the JP.

Exercise your right to due process unless you want to loose it.
 
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Better not to get a ticket in the first place. But if you do, its hard to get aquitted in circus court by some ***-clown jp who thinks they're a real judge. In addition, costs of defending yourself usually ouy-weigh the cost of the ticket and insurance increase. For more serious charges such as careless, its worthwhile to fight it.
 
promac said:
costs of defending yourself usually ouy-weigh the cost of the ticket and insurance increase.
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A lot of the time that's not the case. One day off work and a few hours of your time could save you thousands over three years of insurance!

-Jamie M.
 
Baggsy said:
It used to be that you were innocent unless you did it. Then it because innocent unless you were caught. Now it seems to be innocent unless you get convicted. But the pendulum has swung back in the other direction in response. In some cases now it's guilty if you are accused.
I get a ticket about once every 10 years, but I've seen others who were fighting 2 or 3 tickets get picked out of the middle of a group for speeding.

The typical government response to lots of people fighting tickets is to say that the police are spending too much time in court and not enough on the road. So they hire more police for the road. Since they are now taking more candidates, some of them are not ideal for police work and may slip through the cracks. Do you really want to continue us down this road by attempting to game the court system?

I'd rather that we improve our driving skills, so that people get along and traffic moves smoothly, we need less supervision by police, and we become a traffic utopia.
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I think most people here would agree with you IF the ticket were the only penalty. I don't think too many people would be so worried about fighting their tickets.

HOWEVER - that is not the case. We are being penalized as result of getting a ticket as opposed to an accident, by the insurance companies.
 
toysareforboys said:
A lot of the time that's not the case. One day off work and a few hours of your time could save you thousands over three years of insurance!

-Jamie M.
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It's a crap shoot if you go with anyone other than a lawyer. I remember hiring a guy from Points - it was a disaster, so I charged and had to pay for my pathetic defence guy. :rolleyes:

You really need to hire a proper defence lawyer and have you charge tried in provincial court before a real judge. Otherwise, your best option is a plea deal. The reality is, the jp wants to see you punished in one way or another and rarely lets people off the hook. Rules of evidence and procedure often take the back seat, if considered at all.
 
promac said:
It's a crap shoot if you go with anyone other than a lawyer. I remember hiring a guy from Points - it was a disaster, so I charged and had to pay for my pathetic defence guy. :rolleyes:

You really need to hire a proper defence lawyer and have you charge tried in provincial court before a real judge. Otherwise, your best option is a plea deal. The reality is, the jp wants to see you punished in one way or another and rarely lets people off the hook. Rules of evidence and procedure often take the back seat, if considered at all.
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That is completely wrong... Just because you got hosed by POINTS doesn't mean they are all bad... Check the sponsor of this site then ask people that used them. Redline

Also, you will not get your 10 km/h over ticket in front of a prov. judge. That's not how it works.
 
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Metastable said:
I think most people here would agree with you IF the ticket were the only penalty. I don't think too many people would be so worried about fighting their tickets.

HOWEVER - that is not the case. We are being penalized as result of getting a ticket as opposed to an accident, by the insurance companies.
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O.k. But everyone else with insurance is being penalized by those who get legitimate tickets and get off on an 11b.
Maybe my insurance would be the same as people have it in the U.S. if the rest of you were paying your fair share!

Most of the people who I see fighting tickets constantly are the type who think rolling through a gas station, or cutting into the on ramps are good driving tactics.

People go to court now and 90% are guilty, know it and are trying to get off/buy time. That just isn't right! Then when the innocent get their turn the JOTP is so burned out that they can't make a proper judgement.
 
Cry me a river for JP's.. It's not the fact that they're burnt out that makes them make bad decisions.. It's the fact that it's a purely political appointment for which you don't really need any qualifications.. You just have to know someone who'll get you in.. One JP in Sudbury retired, so his secretary inherited his position... I'm sure those knee-pads and mints paid for themselves a thousand times over :cool: Basically zero qualifications and minimal training.
Traffic court became like real court. Most people who go there are guilty, but without a standardized trial process, we can't make sure that the cops and other participants in the court system follow due process. One way to keep everybody honest is to test their adherence to the process each and every time, in public.
These days, the process is more of a cash grab. Routinely, only one offense is being prosecuted because it's easy to prove, most cops rehearsed it well in court and our system was set up to ensure frequent violations of it. Because of that, many more serious offenses are being ignored unless they get the occasional publicity stunt, but the bulk of the HTA enforcement effort is Section 128 - easy money. Even with that, it wouldn't be worth my while to go to court if it wasn't for the insurance industry...
They are private enterprises, selling a government-mandated service.. They have full access to my conviction record and are more than willing to use it to gouge me. If it wasn't for that factor, I'd just pay my fines, grumble a bit and move on with my life... Take away their access to my conviction record and you'll see me in court a heck of a lot less :cool:
 
I agree. Fight them all, and you will win some cases you thought were lost.

"NO LEFT TURN 7AM-9AM" and I turned left and got a ticket.

I contested the case, so there was a hearing. By and by
we heard the cop's evidence, and it seemed tight. But wait.

I asked, "Did you measure the height of the sign prohibiting the left turn?" Answer "No".
"So can you tell us how high the sign was from the pavement surface?" Answer "No.
"No more questions."

In my defense I said I had not seen the sign, because it did not stand out from the chain link fence behind it. I said I measured the height of the sign, and its bottom edge was almost five feet above the pavement. I pointed out that HTA requires such a sign to have its bottom edge at least six feet above the pavement, so I said that there was no valid sign prohibiting the left turn, so I asked for the charge to be dismissed.

The magistrate hemmed and hawed and said that the figures in the HTA are "just guidelines", and he immediately saw me bristle. Boy, was I ready for THAT ONE! Then he dismissed the case.

I will let you speculate on the actual height of the sign.
Or you can go to Lawrence and Rosewell and measure it yourself.
It may not be the same sign; this tale uses feet
because they were proper units at the time.

Remember, I had already established that the crown's only witness had no way to contradict me. Furthermore, two months had elapsed since the alleged offence, and my testimony addressed the height of the sign THEN, not its height at the date of the hearing.
 
Even if you LOSE your ticket fight, the cost associated with it are nominal, usually just victim surcharge fee, and 'court costs', which may be about $25.

So there's no thought that a 200 speeding ticket is going to ballon to 500 IF you lose your case, hell. Even if you lose then you can pay the fine, file an appeal and delay it out even further if you need to.

Don't be a lemming and think, Oh it's only 1 ticket and I really was speeding, so I'll just take my lumps. You should make them PROVE you guilty every time, in a court of law.

Cheers,
 
The sign height defense is priceless - lol! If I ever get another ticket, I'll have to try that one. "Guidelines" - I'd be all over that one too - lol!
 
What about people who don't get tickets. They are getting ripped off by people who illegitimately get off on tickets, and having to pay more for insurance than they should.
 
Baggsy said:
What about people who don't get tickets. They are getting ripped off by people who illegitimately get off on tickets, and having to pay more for insurance than they should.
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They should blame the cops or the prosecutors for not following the procedure, then. People who get off on tickets do not do so illegitimately. They do it by challenging the Crown's evidence in a court of law and the presiding JP finding it lacking. Can't get less illegitimate than that :cool:
 
FiReSTaRT said:
They should blame the cops or the prosecutors for not following the procedure, then. People who get off on tickets do not do so illegitimately. They do it by challenging the Crown's evidence in a court of law and the presiding JP finding it lacking. Can't get less illegitimate than that :cool:
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You know what I mean.
There are people who knowingly disrespect the rules of the road, they refuse to respect other road users and abuse their driving privilege.
When they get caught they use google to find a solution such as Salos' and then avoid paying a ticket or an insurance increase.
They still drive like ###### and cause stress, rage and accidents, but feel that they can lie and manipulate their way out of any situation.
SInce they aren't paying their fair share of insurance premiums for the risk that they present, everyone else has to pay their way.
 
To me, it really depends on which rules are in question. Sometimes the rules are unfair or applied unfairly. In any case, I am certainly against lying in court. It's illegal, immoral and (less importantly) unproductive. The way to get off is to challenge the Crown's evidence and adherence to the procedures. Even then, you need to have solid evidence to prove that. In any case, out of my last 10 tickets, 1 was completely bogus (and I still had to appeal) and 3 were semi-bogus (hell, in one of the cases the insurance brokerage paid for my defense because they misdated my temp slip, but the constable was more than happy to serve me with a ticket an protect me from a lack of stress). Or in another case, I went into a municipal HOV lane so I can make a right turn into the parking lot. I might have been 100m in front of the entrance. According to the constable who ticketed me (they had a real production line going), the law says I can't drive in it for more than 50m, so I violated the law. Make a lane-change and a turn within 50m on Dundas? I'm sure that would have been categorized as Careless or Dangerous Driving.
What really broke the camel's back for me was a couple of years before the insurance slip ticket.. I got nailed for doing 65 in a 60. I probably was doing 65, but really?! The constable was ordered to set up a trap at a time/place when/where only people unable to dispute their charges were gonna get picked up (out-of-town students and the court dates would have come up during their summer break). Combine that with the insurance hit that I took (because I already had a 10 over on my record), I got pretty soured on the system. Since then, I have been advocating for everyone to test the system for honesty and have been leading by example.
 
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