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Fatal Dog Attack..
- Thread starter raginduck
- Start date
Dogs are bred for specific traits. Ratters, for example need a certain amount of violence to achieve the desired characteristics. I wouldn't let my daughter's ratter play with a hamster unsupervised. That said, the kennel clubs may be partly to blame for breed imbalances by dictating "Designer dogs" with unrealistic body shapes to fit a desired look. Some can't even breed without assistance.
What was the species bred for? The outcome can be altered but it takes a lot of work to make a Ford into a Ferrari.
Generally speaking most people are not violent but there is the odd psychopath born. Has anyone considered that dogs could have the same problem. Agreed the owner is the biggest part of the problem. They either want a vicious dog or ignore the warning signs that their pet is problematic. Many others are lazy and won't take the time to train their animal. When Fido comes across a person that doesn't fit the dog's usual pattern trouble erupts.
The one time I was bitten it was my fault. Without any introduction I did something my cousin only did with her dog and I got a nip for my assumption.
OK
yes some dogs are bread for hunting and that is in there blood and yes a ratter would definitely take some good training to not kill a Hamster.
My dog has a predisposition to eat A LOT but he won’t touch it unless I say he can.
I have put steak and eggs in his bowl and said wait. I sat down and ate mine and cleaned the kitchen. He didn’t touch it until I said ok 40 minutes later.
So I will still argue that a proper trained dog is not a dangerous dog. An untrained ill behaved dog usual can be traced back to **** ownership. Or ignorant ownership.
If your dog has a predisposition for attacking small animals you don’t let it play with Hamsters similar to my Shar-pei was a bit of a dick. My wife ran a home daycare 4 years and the dog stayed upstairs where the kids were not. Would he bite probably not but he was old blind and a little crusty and he has teeth so yes he could.
But lots of people have asked me if I’m scared to have that “pitbull“ near my kids.
No I’m more scared of your kids hurting my Mastiff.
Treat on each paw “wait” I can leave the room and he won’t touch it or move.
He had no formal training what’s so ever he just wants to please and be a good boy.
JTR
Well-known member
You missed the point that dogs aren't things. And licensing obviously doesn't stop bad things necessarily, but it does bring alot more responsibility to the table. If I did use an inanimate object as an example, it would be ebike vs moto. The requirements of lic. and insurance helps to make riders more responsible. Are there still some tools with motos? sure. But we aren't riding around on sidewalks either. It's perfectly rational to be prejudiced against a machine that is so frequently misused by it's owner. However, we're discussing an animal, who wants only 4 things in life. Food, water, love and approval from his pack leader. Banning a breed(race), because (some)people think it looks scary, is irrational. Makes me think of somebody that might cross the street if one of "those people" was coming their way.
My opinions on banning a dog has nothing to do with how it looks and everything to do with whether I have a fighting chance of fighting off that dog if it has a track record of losing it's mind and trying to kill me.
So, like I said in my initial reply to this thread....since Pit Bulls are statistically and provably over represented in the "attacked and killed something" category I am fine with the ban. The yappy Chihuahua on the next street over isn't gonna kill me nor are most other household breeds. They might bite, sure, but they're not going to dismember me in the process.
So, like I said in my initial reply to this thread....since Pit Bulls are statistically and provably over represented in the "attacked and killed something" category I am fine with the ban. The yappy Chihuahua on the next street over isn't gonna kill me nor are most other household breeds. They might bite, sure, but they're not going to dismember me in the process.
So what your saying is no dogs over 60/ 70lbs then.
The problem with the ban is. What is a Pitbull?
How do you ban a breed? I throw in one half Bull Mastiff now it’s legal?
Its bigger but statistically Bull Mastiff have a better reputation so it’s now okay.
What if I throw in some black lab in the bloodline. Surely that is a harmless dog.
The problem with the ban is. What is a Pitbull?
How do you ban a breed? I throw in one half Bull Mastiff now it’s legal?
Its bigger but statistically Bull Mastiff have a better reputation so it’s now okay.
What if I throw in some black lab in the bloodline. Surely that is a harmless dog.
Breed bans are not just about the breed, while the specific breed can do more damage during an attack and also may be more disposed to attack (last part can be argued) the breed tends to attract a certain dirtbag trailer trash irresponsible owner...can't ban the dirtbags, do the next best thing. Not all people who have had (or still have) those breeds are dirtbags but too many were. It was a trailer trash status symbol.
Sucks for the breed, not really much different than banning specific guns that also tend to attract... not everyone one is/was but too many are...
Sucks for the breed, not really much different than banning specific guns that also tend to attract... not everyone one is/was but too many are...
Even if they are banned, circumventing it is trivial as it is hard to define what is banned. My brother moved back to canada with his Staffordshire terrier. It is specifically on the banned list. They had a letter from a vet saying their bulldog was up to date on vaccinations and ready to travel. Who is a border guard to argue against a vet? He was a lovely dog. The most harm he ever did was either his tail cleaning off a coffee table or his sledgehammer head braining you by accident.
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Duplicate
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Long post.
The problem with pitbulls and other gladiator breeds is that pain induces them to lock their jaws on to prey harder. It's in the genes. This is why police have to shoot them in the back of the head to get them to let go. So if a pitbull sees you walking your lab or other docile breed and decides it's prey, there's nothing around that's going to stop it...including the owner.
This is not fair to people with non-gladiator breeds. Way too many cases to prove that owners cannot disengage the fight once it's on. And your docile breed will not stand a chance.
I saw a case recently where a guy was breeding fighting dogs in the southern US. APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier) is the choice of dog for dog fighting rings. He came home to blood all around his property. His mother was attacked while he was gone and eaten by them...parts of her scattered everywhere.
Just like a heeler is born with the instinct to corral sheep or cattle, pit bulls and other gladiator breeds have the "switch" in their DNA to kill. If never faced with a chance to flip that switch, you'll likely have a great pet for life. If for whatever reason the switch is flipped, it's going to be a bad situation.
Case in point, the case of Buddy in The old Dog Whisperer series. This is an APBT fighting dog rescue. Buddy has seen too much cruelty to ever be trusted:
Yet, Daddy (RIP) Cesar's pride and joy, was the nicest red nose pitbull ever. The switch was never triggered. He was the perfect dog.
The guy formerly known as Mladin.
The problem with pitbulls and other gladiator breeds is that pain induces them to lock their jaws on to prey harder. It's in the genes. This is why police have to shoot them in the back of the head to get them to let go. So if a pitbull sees you walking your lab or other docile breed and decides it's prey, there's nothing around that's going to stop it...including the owner.
This is not fair to people with non-gladiator breeds. Way too many cases to prove that owners cannot disengage the fight once it's on. And your docile breed will not stand a chance.
I saw a case recently where a guy was breeding fighting dogs in the southern US. APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier) is the choice of dog for dog fighting rings. He came home to blood all around his property. His mother was attacked while he was gone and eaten by them...parts of her scattered everywhere.
Just like a heeler is born with the instinct to corral sheep or cattle, pit bulls and other gladiator breeds have the "switch" in their DNA to kill. If never faced with a chance to flip that switch, you'll likely have a great pet for life. If for whatever reason the switch is flipped, it's going to be a bad situation.
Case in point, the case of Buddy in The old Dog Whisperer series. This is an APBT fighting dog rescue. Buddy has seen too much cruelty to ever be trusted:
Yet, Daddy (RIP) Cesar's pride and joy, was the nicest red nose pitbull ever. The switch was never triggered. He was the perfect dog.
The guy formerly known as Mladin.
JTR
Well-known member
Wasn't Daddy a fighting rescue though?
-Maverick-
Well-known member
No. He was actually owned by the rapper Redman. Cesar looked after him while Redman was on the road. Daddy became so bonded to Cesar, Redman handed him over to Cesar. Once Daddy died, Cesar was never the same. He has a tribute section to him on his property.
The guy formerly known as Mladin.
While no ban is ever 100% and there are always ways around it most of the people it targets are also too dumb and stupid to do so... Again, there are good people with good dogs that get caught up in the "sweep" just like in the recent gun bans, but I still strongly say these types of bans are just as much about some of the types of people owning said thing and not just the types of said things....
One can have a philosophical argument about protecting society from the stupid.
If they were smart their houses wouldn't have wheels...
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JTR
Well-known member
That's right, he had another one though scarred up, that was a rescued fighter and was another incredibly well behaved dog. I believe he was missing an eye iirc.
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Some want to intimidate or they need a status symbol. My dog is tougher than your dog. I may live in a dump but I've got a big dog to guard my rusty pickup truck. I worry about people that have to prove points.
In reality we tend to have preferences for our spouses in body shapes, personality traits etc. It isn't all that much different with pets. If the pet owner is realistic most breeds can work. If I can trust the owner I can usually trust the pet.
I can't help but feel that the woman that died had a savior complex, "I'm going to save this animal and I am so smart it will happen." She ignored the obvious, it was a biter and she wasn't prepared to do what was necessary, put it down.
Not everything can be fixed so sometimes one has to do the merciful thing.
Exactly.
Trying to say that best owner in the world can turn off deeply rooted DNA programming on a dog that was bred for a very specific purpose is just not reality.
It would be like owning a border collie and expecting them to not naturally herd anything that moves fast enough including kids. It's in their DNA and it's virtually uncontrollable for them to NOT do it even if they don't even realize they're doing it. They just HAVE to when that switch flips.
It would be like owning a Bloodhound and expecting them not constantly have their nose on the ground smelling everything. It's in their DNA.
Like owning a greyhound and being surprised that their DNA dictates that they need to run like total goons regularly. It's in their DNA.
You can't just turn this stuff off. You may be able to turn all these dogs into awesome housepets who sleep on the couch, but given the correct situations and triggers, even if they have no idea they're doing something, their DNA will have them doing it. Herding, sniffing, and running. Or biting and potentially killing.
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