Ethanol in gasoline | GTAMotorcycle.com

Ethanol in gasoline

TK4

TK4

Well-known member
When you buy gasoline, you're supposed to adhere to the motor vehicle manufacturers' recommendations for octane rating.
HOWEVER, regular and middle grade fuels can contain 10-15% ethanol.

"Ethanol by and of itself creates poorer fuel economy. Gasoline with ethanol may reduce fuel mileage by about 3%. The biggest issue with ethanol (aside from damaging fuel system components not designed for it) is that it absorbs water, which also corrodes fuel system parts, and can cause fuel lines to freeze in winter. Overall, it sucks in gas for other reasons than the modest increase in consumption."

Premium fuel from some stations contains 0% ethanol, so in theory should provide better fuel range and economy ?
If you're filling up in Muddy Boot Saskatchewan and aren't sure how far it is to the next gas station that 3% could be the difference between walking and getting there.
I wonder if my theory is remotely true, would it justify the extra cost at the pumps ?
Or is the whole ethanol deal a government conspiracy to indirectly subsidize the corn farmers ?
I await your replies, the silent black helicopters are circling...

p.s - special thanks to Costa Mouzouris for some of the included information (quotation marks).
 
Ethanol when mixed with gasoline reduces tailpipe emissions by approx 30%.

Ethanol production and infrastructure to produce it on massive scale also protects many economies from OPEC tyranny.
 
I know there's been discussion about E15 but I don't think it has actually happened. Normal 87 octane regular fuel has up to 10% ethanol.

Everything built in the last 20 years (probably more) has been designed to accommodate E10. If your bike has fuel injection, it was designed for E10. Older carbureted engines, and perhaps some lawn equipment and marine engines, might have issues with it ... maybe, but probably not, except maybe for winter storage.

I have never noticed any difference in fuel consumption between non-ethanol Shell 91 and loaded-with-ethanol PetroCanada 94. I'm not saying that there isn't a difference (there is a theoretical difference), but it's overwhelmed by other factors - like how fast you drive.

Ethanol is actually a pretty good fuel, if your engine and fuel system were built with compatible components (and everything fuel-injected is, and has been for decades), and if your engine is tuned for it. Very high octane rating, high heat of evaporation helps with volumetric efficiency. And it burns clean and produces little or no carbon build-up.

And, yes, with the way we currently manufacture ethanol, it is largely a sop to the corn farmers of Iowa. You can get E85 everywhere in Iowa, but nowhere in Ontario.

If you want to save a dollar or two on a rental car in Iowa (and it's a flex-fuel vehicle), fill it up with E85 just before you return it to the rental agency. Fuel gauge shows full ... good enough for the rental agency! The fact that the next renter will get lousy fuel economy isn't your problem ...
 
Brian P said:
I know there's been discussion about E15 but I don't think it has actually happened. Normal 87 octane regular fuel has up to 10% ethanol.

Everything built in the last 20 years (probably more) has been designed to accommodate E10. If your bike has fuel injection, it was designed for E10. Older carbureted engines, and perhaps some lawn equipment and marine engines, might have issues with it ... maybe, but probably not, except maybe for winter storage.

I have never noticed any difference in fuel consumption between non-ethanol Shell 91 and loaded-with-ethanol PetroCanada 94. I'm not saying that there isn't a difference (there is a theoretical difference), but it's overwhelmed by other factors - like how fast you drive.

Ethanol is actually a pretty good fuel, if your engine and fuel system were built with compatible components (and everything fuel-injected is, and has been for decades), and if your engine is tuned for it. Very high octane rating, high heat of evaporation helps with volumetric efficiency. And it burns clean and produces little or no carbon build-up.

And, yes, with the way we currently manufacture ethanol, it is largely a sop to the corn farmers of Iowa. You can get E85 everywhere in Iowa, but nowhere in Ontario.

If you want to save a dollar or two on a rental car in Iowa (and it's a flex-fuel vehicle), fill it up with E85 just before you return it to the rental agency. Fuel gauge shows full ... good enough for the rental agency! The fact that the next renter will get lousy fuel economy isn't your problem ...
Click to expand...
Ethanol prices have doubled in the last 6 mos. China is importing from the USA as the don’t have production capacity. Each prices jumped from 1.20/gal to $2.50 in the last 8 mos.
 
Mad Mike said:
Ethanol when mixed with gasoline reduces tailpipe emissions by approx 30%.

Ethanol production and infrastructure to produce it on massive scale also protects many economies from OPEC tyranny.
Click to expand...
CO emissions are indeed reduced by about 30%, but strangely NOx emissions go up about 9% - hmmm...
 
TK4 said:
CO emissions are indeed reduced by about 30%, but strangely NOx emissions go up about 9% - hmmm...
Click to expand...
I don’t think they do, nox is lower with ethanol blends.

The chemistry changes with 100% ethanol. Nox quenches ozone, gasoline makes more nox which reacts and quenches ozone, a good reaction. Ethanol, not as well so where 100% ethanol is used, ozone might be a concern.
 
Ethanol/gasoline blends do not have the same thermal efficiency as "just" gasoline.

www.caradvice.com.au

Ethanol Versus Petrol: The Basics

There’s been a lot of controversy, but ethanol in petrol is here to stay. Holden will have E85-compatible engines here very soon in an attempt to get fuel companies to supply even higher ethanol blends than are currently available. Amid all the anti-ethanol hysteria and fuel-company hype, not...
www.caradvice.com.au www.caradvice.com.au

Will you see the difference in regular street use?
Probably not.

Nevertheless, I stay away from the blends when fuelling my bike and not so with the cars (a hatchback and a sports coupe).

The use of the blends have not deteriorated the performance of my 10 year old lawn mower.

Though I suppose the use of a gas powered mower will be frowned on as the years go by as will be the use of an ICE car, but that is a topic for a separate discussion.
 
As others have said, there are other factors more than the ethanol. On a previous car, I tracked fuel economy from each brand. Car was diesel so no ethanol to worry about. For stations with more than 5 tanks used, iirc mpg was more than 10% different between low station and high station. The premium diesel was consistently worse fuel economy than the cheap stuff.

Even if ethanol did effect fuel economy by 3%, the price premium is 10% or more. You would be far ahead to buy a jerry can that extended your range by ~20% with no ongoing costs.
 
The energy density of gasoline is 34.2 MJ/l while 10% Ethanol is 33.18 MJ/l. But an ethanol blend is 2-3 octane higher then if it was straight gasoline.

So when you buy 87 today, without the ethanol the octane rating of the fuel is closer to 85. Which is how Tesco in the UK sells a 99 RON fuel at a cheaper price then Shell V-Power without Ethanol.

Boost cheap gas' octane rating with a cheaper product. Make people pay the same amount of money, and give them lower fuel economy.
 
SunnY S said:
Best kept secret....

Use ethanol free premium fuel in all your power equipment!
Click to expand...
For sure . I use CT 91 octain . I always put a few litres in the car before the gas can . This is the only fuel I used in my bike . Plus with CT credit card 10 cents off a litre .
 
So.... bottom line - according to you folks, Costa and others I have asked, ethanol free premium gasoline should provide 3% better fuel economy which translates into 3% greater range.
With prices at the pump roughly 15-20% higher there is certainly no economic savings.
I guess if I were to head well off the beaten track I could just carry a small jerry can filled with whatever octane was required and save some $$$.
 
This is all very interesting. I tend to just fill up and ride.
 
Brian P said:
Everything built in the last 20 years (probably more) has been designed to accommodate E10.
Click to expand...
Except for some Ducatis and Aprilias with plastic tanks that softened and swelled...

Apparently the UK is moving from E5 to E10 in September for emissions reasons, and so have an online checker for vehicle compatibility.

Not everybody agrees, though, as Germany cut the ethanol subsidies...
 
Priller said:
as Germany cut the ethanol subsidies...
Click to expand...
All this talk about ethanol making fuel cheaper... doesn't hold water when you look at the subsidies. It may be cheaper at the pump, but when you add what you're paying on the back end with subsidies IT AIN'T CHEAP!!!
It costs a TON of taxes in subsidies and costs land that we could be growing food.
Ethanol in gas is STUPID
 
bitzz said:
All this talk about ethanol making fuel cheaper... doesn't hold water when you look at the subsidies. It may be cheaper at the pump, but when you add what you're paying on the back end with subsidies IT AIN'T CHEAP!!!
It costs a TON of taxes in subsidies and costs land that we could be growing food.
Ethanol in gas is STUPID
Click to expand...
Never thought turning food into fuel was a good idea.

"corn is cheap let's use it"
"gee now that we're using it for fuel the price went up"
"huh. did not see that coming..."
 
TK4 said:
With prices at the pump roughly 15-20% higher there is certainly no economic savings.
Click to expand...
At $15 a tank - who cares? I always fuel my bike with Shell Premium. My car though gets Mobil Premium because at $100 a tank I care about savings :D
 
Maniac said:
At $15 a tank - who cares? I always fuel my bike with Shell Premium.
Click to expand...

Yup, I feed my bike V-Power as well.

I used to work as a drivability and electrical tech at car dealers. Cars where the owners fed it a steady diet of V-Power or similar, very rarely had drivability problems. And spark plugs still looked decent at the tune up intervals.

From my own personal experience Fiat's 1.4L turbos need NGK Iridium plugs every 40,000km per the manual and that's when they start to misfire, while using E10 fuels. Fed it a steady diet of V-Power and they went 100,000km without a hick up.

It's a combination of E10, and the better slurry of detergents used in fuels like V-Power.

Not that every car is going to be the same, and there is some merit in the argument those who feed their vehicles premium fuels are more likely to properly maintain it. But it has always made me wonder.
 
Ontario plans to raise ethanol content from the current average of 10% to 15% by 2030.

ccentral.ca

Ontario hikes ethanol content

The province of Ontario has announced it will increase the requirements for ethanol in gasoline.
ccentral.ca ccentral.ca

"The move will be gradual. The province is mandating changes starting in 2025 when ethanol content moves up to 11% from 10%. By 2028 ethanol content must by 13% with the final target of 15% reached by 2030".

IMHO this drive to increase ethanol is 95% driven by politics, where rural farmer votes are locked in / purchased and the rest of us pay the consequences.

My 2020 Kia manual states do not use > 15% ethanol so, in theory, I'm OK as we move to this new standard, but I'm probably not keeping the vehicle 10 years so maybe a moot point.

My 2019 Tracer GT manual states do not use > 10% ethanol so, in theory, maybe an issue, but it also says use 91 octane premium so I'm probably OK as many premium fuels do not have any ethanol.

I've no idea what other car, SUV, truck or motorcycle manufacturer spec would be re ethanol, but Ontario can't stipulate a standard that is not supported by the industry or we'd be locking out certain brands or models from our market. As an example (which may not be relevant) Honda isn't going to produce a 15% ethanol capable car if the balance of North America is on a 10% standard.
 
meh, I will be all electric by then. otherwise Shell V power for everything else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom