Eleven year old girl dies tobogganing. | GTAMotorcycle.com

Eleven year old girl dies tobogganing.

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nobbie48

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When I first read the news snippet the thoughts that came to my mind would have been deemed inappropriate for the fallen riders forum.

In short she was on a hill where tobogganing was banned. However I have learned more.

Her family moved to Canada from Lebanon six months ago so she (And the people facilitating the outing) may not have been fluent in French or English. How did they interpret the signs or did they just fade into the scenery?

The hill was man made, not unlike the one at Centennial Park in Etobicoke, and steep. There were obstacles including the sign post she hit. It identified some litter containers.

Dozens of other people were using the hill at the time. Everyone's doing it. It must be OK.

There is a lot of blame on the government. They made the hill too steep (The reason it's popular), too many obstacles ((Signs), not enough warnings (Signs), not enough enforcement (Police state). It's somebody else's fault. (See my rant on "Somebody")

The Dunning Kruger effect is a big part of the problem. The people who the sign was intended for think they know more than the person that calculated the risks based on physics and previous injuries. If the sign was an 4 X 8 sheet of plywood with 40 pages of data, how many would read it?

Everyone that encouraged the use of the hill by example is partly to blame.

RIP little one.
 
Who hasn't had a tobogganing incident? My public school had a hill with a jump that resulted in a few broken arms at recess. My wife almost lost an eye in her youth from a GT (front ski bounced off her forehead). A friend broke her heel last year when she hit a tree tobogganing in the forest.

Sadly, it is an inherently dangerous sport. Warning signs will always be lacking in some way. People need to do their own risk assessment or suffer the consequences. There is no protection for stupid. I don't care if you've never seen snow before. You see kids going quickly and stationary objects nearby and your spidey sense should be tingling. I give our kids far more crap for getting close to stationary objects than I do for speed. Closing speed is what hurts/kills you, they might as well get that drummed into their brains early.

It's sad the girl died. I feel for her family. I am disappointed that so many people blame the municipality. Crap like that is how we end up with everything being a by-law infraction and big fines for trying to get outside with your kids. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier for the municipality to ban things than bubble wrap the world. Don't be surprised if that hill is covered with saplings next spring to ensure tobogganing cant happen.
 
GreyGhost said:
Who hasn't had a tobogganing incident? My public school had a hill with a jump that resulted in a few broken arms at recess. My wife almost lost an eye in her youth from a GT (front ski bounced off her forehead). A friend broke her heel last year when she hit a tree tobogganing in the forest.

Sadly, it is an inherently dangerous sport. Warning signs will always be lacking in some way. People need to do their own risk assessment or suffer the consequences. There is no protection for stupid. I don't care if you've never seen snow before. You see kids going quickly and stationary objects nearby and your spidey sense should be tingling. I give our kids far more crap for getting close to stationary objects than I do for speed. Closing speed is what hurts/kills you, they might as well get that drummed into their brains early.

It's sad the girl died. I feel for her family. I am disappointed that so many people blame the municipality. Crap like that is how we end up with everything being a by-law infraction and big fines for trying to get outside with your kids. It's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier for the municipality to ban things than bubble wrap the world. Don't be surprised if that hill is covered with saplings next spring to ensure tobogganing cant happen.
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Re the above, I'm guilty at least twice

Everything is fun until someone gets hurt.
 
nobbie48 said:
Re the above, I'm guilty at least twice

Everything is fun until someone gets hurt.
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I tried snowtubing once at a ski hill. Solid meh. You are in a trough to keep you going the right way, speeds up to ~80 km/h but meh. No real forces to add to the fun. Like a roller coaster but even more boring. Engineered for safety and it is very rare that someone gets hurt. I guess it could be fun for someone that hasn't done anything faster than walking. Without a little unpredictability, danger or required skill, sliding down a hill is not very interesting.
 
Sad that this happened but could easily have happened to any of us growing up. Need to be a way to ban lawsuits over this type of thing and let people live and have fun. There is no way to eliminate the risks and the more bubble wrapping we do the less aware people are of risk as they have never been allowed to do anything dangerous and don't realize they are at risk.
 
Sad indeed. I know the city went back and put foam pads around all objects.

I don't live far from Professors Lake in NE Brampton where almost every summer someone that can't swim goes out further than they should and drowns.

One day a few years back I was there and the sun was shining just right such that you could see through the water and how maybe 30-50 ft out from the shore the ground drops like a cliff. They've now fenced the area off.

And yes, it's invariably someone new to Canada. I think there's just a risk-taking attitude with newcomers that belies sound reasoning. I see it all the time driving. I'm sure the parent of the girl feels awful. RIP.
 
Its a terrible accident , sadly it happens every winter.

for those with kids , teach them how to roll off a tobbogan , the scratching up from the snow is a lot less problem than hitting the fence or post or tree.
Bail out is lesson two , lesson one is on a three of four kid tobbogan , dont be guy 1
 
GreyGhost said:
I tried snowtubing once at a ski hill. Solid meh. You are in a trough to keep you going the right way, speeds up to ~80 km/h but meh. No real forces to add to the fun. Like a roller coaster but even more boring. Engineered for safety and it is very rare that someone gets hurt. I guess it could be fun for someone that hasn't done anything faster than walking. Without a little unpredictability, danger or required skill, sliding down a hill is not very interesting.
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This waterpark turns into winter sliding..they have some decent inclines,..they also have "rafting"

For the poor kiddo on the hill... unless you know what you're doing you should stick to the small hills, like skiing or snowboarding but sadly no one was there to help/teach them, should we have a symbol designation like ski hills? Some playgrounds have age ranges...but i dont know how theyd be able to apply it to a hill that only becomes dangerous a few times during winter
 
LePhillou said:
This waterpark turns into winter sliding..they have some decent inclines,..they also have "rafting"

For the poor kiddo on the hill... unless you know what you're doing you should stick to the small hills, like skiing or snowboarding but sadly no one was there to help/teach them, should we have a symbol designation like ski hills? Some playgrounds have age ranges...but i dont know how theyd be able to apply it to a hill that only becomes dangerous a few times during winter
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Without full-time staffing, banning in the only choice that is safe all the time. Snow-tubing is fully staffed and they change the rules as the snow changes throughout the day. When the snow is slow they all multiple tubes to link up, when it's fast, one at a time to keep the speeds down. Those scenarios could be an hour apart. They monitor how far up the deceleration ramp people are making it to decide what to implement. Ski jumping moves the line up and down the ramp to match conditions. What if the municipality put a max line in 25% of the way up the hill as that is what they determined was safe? Was that worth the time and effort? Who would respect the line (unless it was a physical barrier that was impossible to ignore like a cedar hedge).
 
If it was a cedar hedge my kids would build a jump and clear it .
Signs are useless in any language. Parenting and guidance is what’s needed , go play with your kids , other 9 and 10 yr olds will play how close to the tree can you track before you hit it.


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crankcall said:
If it was a cedar hedge my kids would build a jump and clear it .
Signs are useless in any language. Parenting and guidance is what’s needed , go play with your kids , other 9 and 10 yr olds will play how close to the tree can you track before you hit it.


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I'm working on that with the little one. They ski well inside the comfort zone of others and then say they missed them so what's the problem. Ugh. Don't be a jerk kid, give them space, they don't know what they are doing and don't want to crush a small child. The lesson is taking some time to sink in.
 
Horrible incident for the family and everyone involved. But at what point do you put the blame on the individuals / parents in such a scenario?

I've spent my youthful winters at Centennial Park. Lots of injuries, nothing major, but I would have never thought (or my parents) to go after the owners / municipality for damages...different times. Hell I remember falling off a GT SnowRacer one day and I couldn't move considering how hard I fell on my back.

You cannot legislate / enforce people from doing things like this. Flatten the hill? Full time paid duty officer? Charge admission to the hill and staff it? Unrealistic.

While I sympathize with the family, and RIP to the little girl, at some point we need to take responsibility for our own actions. However I'm sure I would be singing a different tune if it was my child that got seriously injured.
 
GreyGhost said:
That happens too. Lots of kids jump off the bridges clearly marked "No Jumping from Bridge"
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Usually "locals" who know what's below them and know the currents. Then some tourist jumps off the posted bridges because the locals are doing it (like the bridges over the Welland river in Chippawa) and find out real quick the water's a lot faster than it looks.
 
mimico_polak said:
While I sympathize with the family, and RIP to the little girl, at some point we need to take responsibility for our own actions. However I'm sure I would be singing a different tune if it was my child that got seriously injured.
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Imo, it's different if the municipality did something that is dangerous and not easily visible (for instance short stakes to support trees, wire strung across etc.). Imo for clearly visible hazards, the onus is on those using the land, not those that own it. Unfortunately courts don't always agree with me and it costs us all.

In similar new, fundraiser for 5 yo that tragically died of covid exceeded $20K very quickly (currently at 30K and climbing). The parents are heart broken but money does little to help that (especially as amount collected exceeds funeral plus a few months living expenses to allow time to grieve). The family of the 40 to 60 year old that died and left a family unable to stay afloat needs the money far more but gets almost nothing. By and large, even when we try to be altruistic, we make dumb choices.
 
GreyGhost said:
That happens too. Lots of kids jump off the bridges clearly marked "No Jumping from Bridge"
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Bridge on lakeshore rd at Bronte has sign on bridge at road level , no jumping from the bridge
Sign on the concrete support at river level , attention paddle boarders and canoers, watch for jumpers coming from above .
Really


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