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Elephant in the Covid room
- Thread starter Wingboy
- Start date
- Status
I'm still on the fence about shutting schools being a positive or negative.
A gradual and well thought out reopening instead of rapid opening followed by slamming door seems so obvious that it's embarassing.
Right now kids go in to school from homes where there is COVID and mingle with each other and spread it around. You can’t say we have to separate from each other to stop an infectious disease then just ignore a large proportion of the population just because they are kids. It makes zero sense. They spread it just like the rest of us.
And if you close the schools, what do you think happens to most of the kids over 8 or so? They sure as hell arent staying at home and not seeing their friends. They are playing basketball or hanging out in their friends basement. Closer contact, no masks, less supervision, smaller spaces. Top BC doc said closing schools will increase cases. I think it could go either way.
kids playing with 2-3 friends (likely in the neighbourhood) vs 300+ kids altogether
One makes more sense than the other.
ifiddles
Well-known member
@GreyGhost I think @jc100 means to go back online, not just close them...yes we know that kids at home will play with their friends, however, with online learning (as much as I hate it), they're at least occupied for the school day (when we were online earlier this year, I ran my day just like I would've in class, we started and stopped at the same time, no exceptions)...with next week being our break, kids will definitely be getting together with other kids (as will the families) so a 2 (3 would be better) week flip to online would make HUGE sense...
for example, we have about 750 students in my school with about 100 staff...that's 850 people spending 6.5 hours with each other daily...at any given time we have 100 or so kids off per day for whatever reason, so that's down to about 750 people...I know this week I've had 4 kids staying home because parents were uneasy with the increase in cases...so now, I'm teaching to my live students daily, plus posting everything I've done onto D2L so those at home, can keep up with the work and not miss out on too much...
as much as I hate online, I think the best thing would've been to put all schools online this week, next week we're on break and then 2-3 weeks more of online afterwards...that would bring us to early May and if case numbers went down enough, then back to in person...
especially given the fact that other than those people living in the new 'postal code hot spots' not all education workers are being vaccinated...
rant over...
for example, we have about 750 students in my school with about 100 staff...that's 850 people spending 6.5 hours with each other daily...at any given time we have 100 or so kids off per day for whatever reason, so that's down to about 750 people...I know this week I've had 4 kids staying home because parents were uneasy with the increase in cases...so now, I'm teaching to my live students daily, plus posting everything I've done onto D2L so those at home, can keep up with the work and not miss out on too much...
as much as I hate online, I think the best thing would've been to put all schools online this week, next week we're on break and then 2-3 weeks more of online afterwards...that would bring us to early May and if case numbers went down enough, then back to in person...
especially given the fact that other than those people living in the new 'postal code hot spots' not all education workers are being vaccinated...
rant over...
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blackcamaro
Well-known member
From the press conference today
98.9% of schools are currently open
99.8% of students don’t have a active case
99.28% of students haven’t reported a case
99.77% of teachers don’t have a active case
98.2% of teachers haven’t reported a case
I don’t have kids but if I did I would want them in school.
24 minute mark is where he gives those numbers.
98.9% of schools are currently open
99.8% of students don’t have a active case
99.28% of students haven’t reported a case
99.77% of teachers don’t have a active case
98.2% of teachers haven’t reported a case
I don’t have kids but if I did I would want them in school.
Yes, back online.
I get that it’s a pain but this is not good right now and has the potential to turn very bad indeed. I’m not sure if people understand this is still a once in a lifetime event, a true crisis. Every day some nations post a record number of deaths. You may think it doesn't matter but Brazil's crisis has flowed outside its borders and South America is now squarely in the crosshairs.
I get that it’s a pain but this is not good right now and has the potential to turn very bad indeed. I’m not sure if people understand this is still a once in a lifetime event, a true crisis. Every day some nations post a record number of deaths. You may think it doesn't matter but Brazil's crisis has flowed outside its borders and South America is now squarely in the crosshairs.
Odd...because in the past month we have had near daily reports of kids with Covid cases in multiple schools just in our town. They close the classes.
I mean.. Schools COVID-19 data - Schools with active COVID-19 cases - Ontario Data Catalogue
Sure seems like a lot of cases when you add them up.
Sure seems like a lot of cases when you add them up.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
I can’t really see the charts on my phone. To be fair I’ll take another look at work tomorrow. It looks like a bunch of schools with 1-3 confirmed cases but again I can’t tell right now. Out of how many students in the province?
Again for me if I had kids I would have no problem sending them to school with those kinds of numbers. I think it’s important for kids to be in school.
ifiddles
Well-known member
@blackcamaro I've heard that 25.7% of schools have had a case and as @jc100 says, there are daily cases being reported by the various boards around the province...
if the numbers are so low, then why did so many PHUs use a Section 22 order to go against the government and go online this week?...kids as everyone should know are little germ factories...they may not get severely sick themselves, but they can still be carriers and transmit the virus (as well as any other virus) to the adults in the building...it's those adults that need to be protected...
some schools have had to close because of a lack of supply teachers and to be honest, if I was a supply teacher, I personally wouldn't want to be travelling around from one school to another on a daily basis...
and what about staff that work with special needs kids who may not be able to wear a mask for one reason or another?...they might have to toilet the child, wipe noses, etc....yes, they have PPE (I wear double masks and a face shield), but still...
I'll say it again, I hated online teaching and the majority of kids don't do well and don't like it either...and yes, I agree they need to be in school in an ideal world, but we're not in an ideal world right now and we need to adapt to the current environment...
if the numbers are so low, then why did so many PHUs use a Section 22 order to go against the government and go online this week?...kids as everyone should know are little germ factories...they may not get severely sick themselves, but they can still be carriers and transmit the virus (as well as any other virus) to the adults in the building...it's those adults that need to be protected...
some schools have had to close because of a lack of supply teachers and to be honest, if I was a supply teacher, I personally wouldn't want to be travelling around from one school to another on a daily basis...
and what about staff that work with special needs kids who may not be able to wear a mask for one reason or another?...they might have to toilet the child, wipe noses, etc....yes, they have PPE (I wear double masks and a face shield), but still...
I'll say it again, I hated online teaching and the majority of kids don't do well and don't like it either...and yes, I agree they need to be in school in an ideal world, but we're not in an ideal world right now and we need to adapt to the current environment...
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I didn’t get to the end of the list but there are 63,000 records there. It appears to be one entry per school if I’m not mistaken. Each one is 1+ active Covid case. It is over a period of time from 2020 too but still. Now add in those missed cases and it sure seems like a lot.
If I had kids, the last place I’d want to send them, when there’s a pandemic involving a highly transmissible disease, is a place where a large number of people congregate for more than a few hours a day inside. It just doesn’t make sense.
ifiddles
Well-known member
@blackcamaro as of April 1, there were 329 daily cases in schools...one school in my board just south of me has 5 classes closed because of the virus...another school in my board has 7 cases and 4 classrooms closed...my school has 2 classrooms closed...and there's many more...
edit to add: the week leading up to Christmas break, we were at 196 daily cases province wide and we were shut down until 2nd week of February...the first week we went back (February 8) we were at an average of 68/week...and it's been growing since...
edit to add: the week leading up to Christmas break, we were at 196 daily cases province wide and we were shut down until 2nd week of February...the first week we went back (February 8) we were at an average of 68/week...and it's been growing since...
meanie
Fair enough and that is what I expect will happen. Like I said, I could be convinced either way and even with hindsight it is hard to tell whether the correct path was chosen. Your argument makes a lot of sense.
The simplest approach for me would be a proper ironclad lockdown with the only places allowed to operate actual businesses or facilities that would cause death if closed. Georestrict to you closest grocery store etc. As it is, most jobs are essential so depending on the age of the kid(s) one parent needs to stay home (or at least substantially reduce hours) when schools are closed. This puts a huge strain on people. One of my wifes co-workers broke down in January as she works in a hospital and must go to work daily and her husband was a mechanic. They had used up their savings and the boss told her husband that he was welcome to stay home with the kids but there wouldn't be a job for him when he wanted to come back. Absolutely brutal. Thankfully they got an emergency daycare spot and made it through that lockdown.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
Is that 329 in your board or in the entire province? Quick google search tells me there is about 2,000,000 students in Ontario.
329 daily cases out of a couple million students doesn’t really give me any panic or concern.
Honestly I was shocked when I heard those stats from Ford today which is why it stood out to me. I thought it would’ve been much higher. School boards and the teachers have done a good job IMO.
ifiddles
Well-known member
@GreyGhost and I agree with everything you said as well...it definitely is a hard time for everyone...another reason why the NDP is lobbying for sick days (although in your wife's friend's situation that wouldn't have done much for them) so people can stay home when they are sick...from what I could tell, the majority of my students had at least one parent home with them the last go around (I know this because many moms dropped in to say hello during the day), but this isn't possible for everyone...
which is why, the unions and even other groups like trustees are lobbying to get teachers/staff/bus drivers vaccinated over the break...it makes sense to get us vaccinated and then we can remain open...I realize the vaccine won't stop us from getting ill, however, it should reduce symptoms and possible detrimental outcomes if we are...
you guys are good to have a conversation with!
on a side note, my hubby is a truck driver so he's been working the whole time...since he mostly does shunt work around the yard(s) with the odd pick up or delivery, he doesn't have to wear his mask too often, only when he enters any building...anyways, he had to 'train' a guy for two days this week and obviously had his mask on while in the truck and when he came home, he's like 'now I understand how you feel after wearing it the whole day"...add a shield and welcome to my world was my reply
which is why, the unions and even other groups like trustees are lobbying to get teachers/staff/bus drivers vaccinated over the break...it makes sense to get us vaccinated and then we can remain open...I realize the vaccine won't stop us from getting ill, however, it should reduce symptoms and possible detrimental outcomes if we are...
you guys are good to have a conversation with!
on a side note, my hubby is a truck driver so he's been working the whole time...since he mostly does shunt work around the yard(s) with the odd pick up or delivery, he doesn't have to wear his mask too often, only when he enters any building...anyways, he had to 'train' a guy for two days this week and obviously had his mask on while in the truck and when he came home, he's like 'now I understand how you feel after wearing it the whole day"...add a shield and welcome to my world was my reply
ifiddles
Well-known member
@blackcamaro those numbers are province wide...and yes, I agree, schools have been doing a great job...and I have to admit, my students (grade 2 & 3) for the most part have done really well also...lots of hand sanitizing, hand washing, staying apart (but let's face it, they're kids and forget sometimes)...
I carry hand sanitizer virtually everywhere we go, even outside for recess and at the end of the day...one day last week a couple of my girls touched each other, so I'm like, come over here, remember no touching, here's some sanitizer...they're like, did you ditch Bob (my hubby) for hand sanitizer?, we know you love your hand sanitizer...little buggers...
I carry hand sanitizer virtually everywhere we go, even outside for recess and at the end of the day...one day last week a couple of my girls touched each other, so I'm like, come over here, remember no touching, here's some sanitizer...they're like, did you ditch Bob (my hubby) for hand sanitizer?, we know you love your hand sanitizer...little buggers...
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