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Electric starter will not start cold engine
- Thread starter janosdre
- Start date
janosdre
Well-known member
I sanded all the terminals I could and I inspected all the wires. I don't see any sign of corrosion, but this is what I thought of myself. I'm going to try the boost tomorrow and I will probably take it from there.
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yodude
Banned
janosdre
Well-known member
It's not as simple as connecting booster cables to the battery terminals. This bike has tiny terminals that is hard to connect anything too, except for the bike's connector. I will try using some spare wires. I'm sure I will be able to find some wire that will fit.
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Iceman
Well-known member
If you use longer battery terminal bolts with a locknut, the extra length sticking up makes it easier to connect to. I went to Canadian tire and bought a small set of power sport booster cables for $10. Has smaller clips to attach to small batteries, came with a pouch and stays under my seat all the time.
The ttr90 is known for hard starting, I can guarantee it needs a new battery but at this point you may want to wait till spring.
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The ttr90 is known for hard starting, I can guarantee it needs a new battery but at this point you may want to wait till spring.
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Understandable...then do what this guy did - remove the battery completely and connect the booster cables (carefully) directly to the bikes electrical system..and then test. All you're doing is basically taking the battery out of the loop, and it'll be a lot easier to connect the booster cables to the wiring on the bike than the battery/wiring combo.
TK4
Well-known member
The TTR90 uses a tiny little 4 ampere hour battery and has a carburetor heater.
As has been suggested by others, unless the battery is 100% the likelihood of it cold starting on the button easily is slim to none.
Use the kickstarter as primary and the electric starter as backup.
As has been suggested by others, unless the battery is 100% the likelihood of it cold starting on the button easily is slim to none.
Use the kickstarter as primary and the electric starter as backup.
janosdre
Well-known member
Okay, so I tried boosting it, but I get the same effect. No improvement. I'm starting to think the idea that it's a restarter instead of a starter maybe valid. I took a look at the manual, but it doesn't even show the electric starter.
Now it starts with the kick-starter. The electric starter works when the engine is warm. If that's how it's supposed to be, then I can live this. However if someone can confirm or dispute this, it would be great.
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TK4
Well-known member
The earlier TTR90s didn't have an electric starter only the TTR90E models. Live with it, and enjoy riding it rather than fussing over it.
Did it spin any faster with the cables on?
Did you remove the battery or try to fiddle the cables onto the terminals with the battery still connected? Or did you use intermediate wires somehow to get from the cables to the battery? In the last scenario too small of wire can effectively eliminate any benefit of the booster cables if sufficient amps can't pass through.
Did you remove the battery or try to fiddle the cables onto the terminals with the battery still connected? Or did you use intermediate wires somehow to get from the cables to the battery? In the last scenario too small of wire can effectively eliminate any benefit of the booster cables if sufficient amps can't pass through.
TK4
Well-known member
Its only got a 12V/4AH battery - you could hook it up directly to a 220V DC welder and it won't pass any more through it, just blow it up.
The owner will kick start when cold, only using the electric for hot start situations and everything will be fine.
Let him get on with fixing the clutch so his kid can go for a ride....
Hookup that battery through 24ga wire and it won't start even with a brand new battery...that was my point. Resistance is a big deal in the electrical world, and amps matter.
Unless there's something in the manual specific to the fact that it wasn't ever designed to cold start from the electric starter (which seems highly unlikely to me), then IMHO it's all cool if the owner doesn't want to bother with it anymore, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an underlying reason still.
I like to fix things, not just say "It's OK that it doesn't work right, I just won't use it anymore". I do understand if the OP is cool with that however, as mentioned, but just clarifying.
TK4
Well-known member
More important is how many cranking amps a 4AH battery can provide under the best of conditions.You can jump it with anything you like, with whatever gauge wire wire you like, its not going to make a difference.
Its an older machine in need of regular maintenance (not to mention a clutch), so given prevailing circumstances this is likely as good as it gets.
ah,, that is entirely wrong.... a larger wire size.. and a battery with more capacity will spin the starter faster.. and if the larger wire is connected to the right place.. there won't be a voltage drop at the CDI .. and the spark will be stronger.
I try to clip on needle nose vise grips right on the starter terminal... connect the larger battery teminals to appropriate booster cables... connect the positive to the needle nose vise grips ... and hold the neg booster cable ready to connect to the bike chassis..... have the key on... and press the starter button and connect the neg to the bike chassis...
with this method.. the larger battery with the larger wire [booster cables] is connected directly to the starter motor... and there should be lots of power avail at the starter from the large battery,, and just a little from the small battery to make the starter relay close..
it sort of eliminates almost all the possibilities of bad connections if you have the needle nose right on the starter stud.. unless the bike has a ground cable in the circuit that has bad connection.. most bikes don't have rubber engine mounts and don't use frame to engine [starter] ground straps..
always connect the neg clamp last.. if it does spark a little.. the spark won;'t be near the batteries..
what I am saying here is to "jump" to the starter motor terminal.. not the standard method of putting booster cables on the "dead" battery terminals....
larger wire, and stronger battery does make a difference..
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Sigh.
You didn't take electronics in high school, did you?
A 4ah battery of the size this bike can take will output upwards of 40 to 55 amps at 12 volts. Using 50 amps as a standard, at 12 volts, that's about 300 watts. Using a conservative 7" run (which is probably short, but who knows, perhaps the starter is right next to the battery on this bike?) the required wire size to carry 50 amps is 12ga. If it's a more realistic 15" run, it goes down to 10ga. 8ga if the run is any more than 20 inches from the battery to the starter itself.
So, if you take the battery out of the equation and then try pushing that whole 50 amps through, say 24ga wire like I mentioned, it isn't going to do anything except perhaps stink up your garage with melted insulation and possibly/probably even start a fire. Might make a nice lightshow for a few seconds as well before the wire completely melts.
If the battery is left in the combination it probably won't cook the wire since the battery will still absorb most of the amp draw, but it's not going to do anything near what it should for diagnostic testing purposes either.
Here's a nifty video demonstrating what happens when you try to pass too much current through too small of a wire. This is a dead short, but same difference - current is current.
[video=youtube;vLTkkXajDVc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLTkkXajDVc[/video]
TK4
Well-known member
The bike has a kickstarter, let the man get on about his business...
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