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E-bike license
- Thread starter nobbie48
- Start date
Some simple training would seem prudent, but given their nickname is "DUI Bikes" (often for a reason) can we expect people who obviously have an already flagrant disregard for the laws to be bothered to get a licence?
Some sort of mandatory basic course would be a huge plus though, a few hours of the absolute basics in MC safety and a new endorsement or something that makes them legal to ride, even if it's still basically an unlicenced/uninsured free for all after the fact, at least they'd have a few basic skills?
I think it would be along the lines of helmet laws for young bicyclists in the end though - they're supposed to wear them by law, but enforcement/ticketing is zero. A lot of people on the ebikes would just thumb their noses at any sort of regs IMHO unless it became full on plates/licence/insurance like a regular MC.
Some sort of mandatory basic course would be a huge plus though, a few hours of the absolute basics in MC safety and a new endorsement or something that makes them legal to ride, even if it's still basically an unlicenced/uninsured free for all after the fact, at least they'd have a few basic skills?
I think it would be along the lines of helmet laws for young bicyclists in the end though - they're supposed to wear them by law, but enforcement/ticketing is zero. A lot of people on the ebikes would just thumb their noses at any sort of regs IMHO unless it became full on plates/licence/insurance like a regular MC.
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I think they should revoke the 30 km/h speed limiter and have them registered, licensed, and insured as "low speed motorcycles", for which a class already exists.
Possibly part of the problem is that these were envisioned as bicycles, which looked like bicycles and could be used as bicycles but with a helper motor, and then developed into scooters with vestigial (and useless) pedals to satisfy the letter of the law.
edit: given the behaviour of some bicyclists, it would not necessarily be a terrible thing if they had to go through some motions in order to be on public roadways as well.
Possibly part of the problem is that these were envisioned as bicycles, which looked like bicycles and could be used as bicycles but with a helper motor, and then developed into scooters with vestigial (and useless) pedals to satisfy the letter of the law.
edit: given the behaviour of some bicyclists, it would not necessarily be a terrible thing if they had to go through some motions in order to be on public roadways as well.
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statsman
Well-known member
I have this recurring dream where an e-bike hops the curb, hits a pedestrian and they suffer serious injury.
With no insurance the injured party has no choice except to sue the rider for lost wages etc.
Of course if the rider had any money, they wouldn't be riding an e-bike.
With no insurance the injured party has no choice except to sue the rider for lost wages etc.
Of course if the rider had any money, they wouldn't be riding an e-bike.
Envision the biggest NFL tackle running as fast as he could hitting the average pedestrian, worse still an elderly one and the damage would likely be less than an E-bike. I saw two chubby sorts on an E-bike riding on a sidewalk. Probably about 500-600 pounds going at 20 KPH with little control.
Happened to my friends mom. She was just walking down the sidewalk and got drilled and knocked down my an e bike. Luckily just had some cuts and bruises
http://www.woodstocksentinelreview....bike-driver-charged-after-striking-pedestrian
Since no insurance is required am I to assume that the whole (Screwed up) Ontario insurance act is not applicable?
Therefore it's lawyer vs lawyer and no holds barred.
While an at fault rider may not have any assets at the time he may have years or decades later. It is my understanding that if a judgement is registered against the rider it never goes away. Twenty five years later he inherits some cash and it could get scooped.
I'm guessing if he/she declared bankruptcy they would be able to safely inherit.
Re the insurance, IIRC my homeowners insurance covers bicycles and small boats. I'll have to check details and if an E-bike is covered.
Some links:
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=f4d4970aa08c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
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I've never ridden an E-bike but this rider makes some interesting comments about the whole screwed up mess. I thought that youtube was stalling at times but he does freeze frames to allow for analysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo_RE-yESJA
Since the video was made Toronto has changed the bylaws for a two year study, allowing E-bikes in bike lanes.
City of Toronto Bylaws say a person over 14 YO can't ride a bike on a sidewalk and Provincial laws say a person has to be 16 YO to ride an E-bike. So while there is no law banning E-bikes from sidewalks the combined laws make it illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo_RE-yESJA
Since the video was made Toronto has changed the bylaws for a two year study, allowing E-bikes in bike lanes.
City of Toronto Bylaws say a person over 14 YO can't ride a bike on a sidewalk and Provincial laws say a person has to be 16 YO to ride an E-bike. So while there is no law banning E-bikes from sidewalks the combined laws make it illegal.
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Toronto bylaws differentiate "e-scooters" from "e-bicycles". The bylaws do in effect ban "e-scooters" from sidewalks and most bike paths.
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=f4d4970aa08c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
The solution IS simple: put the biking back into e-bikes. If the throttle were controlled by pedalling, stupid and lazy and license-revoked people would stop using them. Or at least, not nearly as much.
Pedelecs
E-bikes which are similar to bicycles ("Pedelecs") are considered to be bicycles by the municipality of Toronto, and may be used on all types of cycling infrastructure. This includes painted bike lanes, Cycle Tracks (separated bicycle lanes) and multi-use trails where regular bicycles are allowed. By it's definition in the Toronto Municipal Code, a "pedelec" must weigh less than 40kg and requires pedaling for propulsion.
I had an interesting chat with a friend / insurance agent. To start a policy the first thing they want after your name and address is your driver's license number. If you don't have one it's hurdle number one.
I suggested assigning a corporate number like the one used for company vehicles. "That would raise red flags as it implies business use. Red flags are very expensive."
We discussed home owners policies and typically they cover some away from home items which are listed. They include power boats under 25 HP, non powered boat up to 26 feet, lawn tractors, self propelled snow blowers, golf carts used on a golf course and conventional bicycles. No other motorized vehicles are covered.
The riders of these things (Bicycles included) have no ID or plate number number so if they mangle the paint on the side of your car they can just disappear and since you can't label them you suck up the deductible and future rate increases.
Then yeah, e-bike that isn't a pedelec should be considered a motor vehicle like all others. Thing is it would be up to the Feds to designate a motor vehicle exemption for pedelecs only, not current e-bikes. Unless Toronto bans e-bikes somehow. Bad optics doing that though.
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TK4
Well-known member
'Back in the day', when mopeds were first introduced in Ontario (think Honda PC50), you didn't need plate/insurance and only needed some form (a learners' was sufficient) of drivers licence and a helmet to operate. They were total P.O.S., but that first year we sold over 300 to every DUI in east end T.O.
They were limited to 50 kmh and had to have pedals.
Once the province figured out what a clusterf*ck they'd created, you had to have insurance and a 'red' plate to operate. Within 2 or 3 years they vanished.
E-bikes are not the same as electrically assisted bicycles, but the distinction is subtle, so its harder to enforce than something gasoline powered.
Lastly, "E-bikes which are similar to bicycles ("Pedelecs") are considered to be bicycles by the municipality of Toronto, and may be used on all types of cycling infrastructure. This includes painted bike lanes, Cycle Tracks (separated bicycle lanes) and multi-use trails where regular bicycles are allowed. By it's definition in the Toronto Municipal Code, a "pedelec" must weigh less than 40kg and requires pedaling for propulsion."
I believe that if E-bikes are being operated on bike paths or trails they MUST be under pedal power, but as was mentioned already good luck getting anyone to enforce that...
They were limited to 50 kmh and had to have pedals.
Once the province figured out what a clusterf*ck they'd created, you had to have insurance and a 'red' plate to operate. Within 2 or 3 years they vanished.
E-bikes are not the same as electrically assisted bicycles, but the distinction is subtle, so its harder to enforce than something gasoline powered.
Lastly, "E-bikes which are similar to bicycles ("Pedelecs") are considered to be bicycles by the municipality of Toronto, and may be used on all types of cycling infrastructure. This includes painted bike lanes, Cycle Tracks (separated bicycle lanes) and multi-use trails where regular bicycles are allowed. By it's definition in the Toronto Municipal Code, a "pedelec" must weigh less than 40kg and requires pedaling for propulsion."
I believe that if E-bikes are being operated on bike paths or trails they MUST be under pedal power, but as was mentioned already good luck getting anyone to enforce that...
statsman
Well-known member
IMHO if it has a motor, it is a motorized vehicle and should be treated as such.
Drivers licence, plate, insurance and helmet mandatory.
Not allowed on the sidewalk or in the bicycle lane because its not a bicycle.
Why the province makes these things so difficult is a mystery. Exceptions on top of exemptions on top of errors.
Then have the city throw in their two cents and you wind up with a right royal mess.
Drivers licence, plate, insurance and helmet mandatory.
Not allowed on the sidewalk or in the bicycle lane because its not a bicycle.
Why the province makes these things so difficult is a mystery. Exceptions on top of exemptions on top of errors.
Then have the city throw in their two cents and you wind up with a right royal mess.
Given the behaviour of most licensed road users it would appear those 'motions' don't amount to much.
Eliminate the bizarre no-man's-land. If it's got a motor it's a motor vehicle and subject to insurance, and licensing.
If you go to the YouTube link in post 8 you will see why they should be using the bike lanes. The video was shot before they were allowed to do so and the congestion / safety factors were serious. Nothing slows traffic like a dead body lying in the road.
Let's see. We have cars and trucks, full motorcycles, scooters that can keep up with city traffic, E-bikes, pedelecs, Segways, hoverboards, mobility scooters and a few assorted other powered devices using the roads. Bicycles have been with us for a long time but often we are joined by joggers, skateboarders and rollerbladers, many of whom ignore the laws (If they know them) and alternate between sidewalk and street.
The operation of the above powered vehicles is dependent on three levels of government. What rolls in Toronto may not roll in Mississauga.
The government will ignore the problem until a bunch of people die or there is negative economic feedback. Then it's too late.
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