Drive - hand held communication device / sect. 78.1 (1)

[suzuki2000]

You dont have to be holding anything. Operating a GPS while driving falls under the same law.

what other items fall under hand held devices?, are shavers, make up, hamburgers, Tim Hortons, etc included?

One tried to get me in North Durham for the same thing, but than realized it was a can of pop i was drinking ..

My parents drove truck, years ago my step-father had a cop cite him smewhere in the states,(I think California?) for using a cell while driving, when he was actually passing the ringing phone to my mother who was coming out of the bunk at the time.... Could he fight it? maybe, but going to California to do so would be prohibitive


I think all GPS's have a disclosure on start up that you wont use while driving dont they?

 

[jeffjones]

what other items fall under hand held devices?, are shavers, make up, hamburgers, Tim Hortons, etc included?

Any hand held device that can send or receive a signal.

 

[jeffjones]

Found this on another post, not sure if it has the whole thing:

"78.1 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway while holding or using a hand-held wireless communication device or other prescribed device that is capable of receiving or transmitting telephone communications, electronic data, mail or text messages. 2009, c. 4, s. 2."




So does this law apply to me changing radio stations or entering an address on a gps that's built into my dashboard? The HTA says "holding", i wasn't holding anything, but a piece of paper......

 

[Two50noob]

And idea how this law will apply to smart watches?

 

[jeffjones]

Here's my take on this:
If you were not holding a cell phone, you were charged under the wrong subsection. GPS devices fall squarely under the section of display screens. See below.
Exempt devices
7. The display screens of the following devices may be visible to any driver in a motor vehicle driven on a highway:
1. A device that displays,
i. information on the conditions, use and immediate environment of the vehicle, or
ii. information on road or weather conditions.
2. An ignition interlock device.
3. A car audio control that displays only text or static images.
4. A hand-held device that displays only text or static images and is connected directly into and operates using the audio system controls of the motor vehicle. O. Reg. 366/09, s. 7.
Requirement that display screens be secure
8. The exemptions in sections 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 apply only if the display screen of the computer, mobile data terminal or other device is placed securely in or mounted to the motor vehicle so that it does not move while the vehicle is in motion. O. Reg. 366/09, s. 8.

A GPS device, while capable of sending and receiving information/data, is covered specifically under the def'n of a display screen - for which there is an exemption if it's attached to the dash or windshield.

There is an exemption for the use of cell phones in that you are permitted to press 'a button' to send or receive a call, if the phone is similarly attached to the dash.

If you were pressing a button on the GPS, that's different than entering a whole address. It's still distracting and may get you in trouble.

Best bet is to tell the truth - you were charged for a cell phone offence, and you were not using your cell phone. Period. The prosecution may try to amend the charge to the correct subsection, and it will get a little tricky to wade through the legal mumbo-jumbo. If you're dead set on maintaining your perfect record, you may have luck with a paralegal service on this one.

Perfect, Now I can finally believe you are not a real cop.


Where does it say usuing GPS while on the road is exempt?
He was not charged with a cell phone offence, he was charged with using an electronic device that can send or receive electronic data. which he has admitted on a public forum of doing........

 

[Bike Cop]

Perfect, Now I can finally believe you are not a real cop.


Where does it say usuing GPS while on the road is exempt?
He was not charged with a cell phone offence, he was charged with using an electronic device that can send or receive electronic data. which he has admitted on a public forum of doing........

Believe what you want I guess.

You will have to be more specific as to what you mean by "using" a GPS. It is not a handheld communication device, it is a display screen. Check the definition of display screen that I posted, read the subsection about displaying road information. Also you can check s. 78(1) and read the part where it says that GPS is allowed to be visible to the driver. The section for 78.1(1) refers to handheld communication devices. If the driver was charged for using a cell phone and he wasn't in fact using one, he is not guilty of the offence. It the Crown wants to amend the charge that's up to them.

 

[WrothWaith]

Believe what you want I guess.

You will have to be more specific as to what you mean by "using" a GPS. It is not a handheld communication device, it is a display screen. Check the definition of display screen that I posted, read the subsection about displaying road information. Also you can check s. 78(1) and read the part where it says that GPS is allowed to be visible to the driver. The section for 78.1(1) refers to handheld communication devices. If the driver was charged for using a cell phone and he wasn't in fact using one, he is not guilty of the offence. It the Crown wants to amend the charge that's up to them.

Hi Bike Cop.

Using in this case would mean programming a destination while underway. OP can have the screen mounted in a fashion such that it can be seen while driving, as you say specific exemption for screen visible under R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78 2(A). Which I found here: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK133

I note the following:
There is a textual difference between what you quoted, and what I was able to find, from what source did you quote your material?, I'm always trying to look at the latest laws
and
Both R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (1) and R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (2) both refer to "other prescribed device"(s) does anyone have a link to current regulation on this?

If OP had a GPS capable of accepting voice instructions, that should be acceptable for programming a destination while underway under R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (3), but poking at the screen while driving would be forbidden, no?

 

[Bike Cop]

Hi Bike Cop.

Using in this case would mean programming a destination while underway. OP can have the screen mounted in a fashion such that it can be seen while driving, as you say specific exemption for screen visible under R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78 2(A). Which I found here: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK133

I note the following:
There is a textual difference between what you quoted, and what I was able to find, from what source did you quote your material?, I'm always trying to look at the latest laws
and
Both R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (1) and R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (2) both refer to "other prescribed device"(s) does anyone have a link to current regulation on this?

If OP had a GPS capable of accepting voice instructions, that should be acceptable for programming a destination while underway under R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER H.8 (2012) 78.1 (3), but poking at the screen while driving would be forbidden, no?

Here's where I got my info for display screens:
ONTARIO REGULATION 366/09

DISPLAY SCREENS AND HAND-HELD DEVICES

Consolidation Period: From January 1, 2013 to the e-Laws currency date.

I believe the "prescribed device" reference is found within that regulation, as it defines the following devices: hand microphone or portable radio, mobile data terminal, two-way radio.

I am unable to find any reference to GPS units other than the one in s. 78(1) HTA. The only other reference that comes close is the one about road information found in reg 366/09. I have found nothing at all that says you are unable to program a GPS while in motion. If anyone else can find anything on that, please share.

With so many changes in technology, the regulations may not fully capture each specific device, ie. your iPhone could be used as a GPS, does that mean it's exempt? This may be a case of something that isn't explicitly illegal, but is not a best practice. And I wouldn't doubt that if something were to happen while someone was programming their GPS, they would still be liable. That could mean a more generic charge might be applicable, such as careless driving, or even criminal negligence, as the case may be.

 

[iFly55]

IMO S78 deals with exempted display screens that must be 'securely mounted'. Nowhere under S78 does it say you're allowed or prohibited from using these 'display screens'.

I feel things get more confusing, because hand-held devices can also be 'Display Screens'

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_090366_e.htm

Exempt devices 7. The display screens of the following devices may be visible to any driver in a motor vehicle driven on a highway: 1. A device that displays, i. information on the conditions, use and immediate environment of the vehicle, or ii. information on road or weather conditions. 2. An ignition interlock device. 3. A car audio control that displays only text or static images. 4. A hand-held device that displays only text or static images and is connected directly into and operates using the audio system controls of the motor vehicle. O. Reg. 366/09, s. 7.​

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http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK133

Display screen visible to driver prohibited 78. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway if the display screen of a television, computer or other device in the motor vehicle is visible to the driver. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.​ Exceptions (2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of the display screen of, (a) a global positioning system navigation device while being used to provide navigation information; (b) a hand-held wireless communication device or a device that is prescribed for the purpose of subsection 78.1 (1); (c) a logistical transportation tracking system device used for commercial purposes to track vehicle location, driver status or the delivery of packages or other goods; (d) a collision avoidance system device that has no other function than to deliver a collision avoidance system; or (e) an instrument, gauge or system that is used to provide information to the driver regarding the status of various systems of the motor vehicle. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.​

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The use (ie. touch) of the display screen could only be prohibited under S78.1; because the only exemption for pressing or touching a hand-held device is to transmit/receive a voice communication. Therefore, all other touching/pressing is prohibited.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_090366_e.htm

Exemption for pressing buttons 14. (1) A person may drive a motor vehicle on a highway while pressing a button on a hand-held wireless communication device to make, answer or end a cell phone call or to transmit or receive voice communication on a two-way radio if the device is placed securely in or mounted to the motor vehicle so that it does not move while the vehicle is in motion and the driver can see it at a quick glance and easily reach it without adjusting his or her driving position. O. Reg. 366/09, s. 14 (1). (2) A person may drive a motor vehicle on a highway while pressing a button on a device that is worn on his or her head or hung over or placed inside his or her ear or is attached to his or her clothing and is linked to a hand-held wireless communication device to make, answer or end a cell phone call or to transmit or receive voice communication on a two-way radio or a hand microphone or portable radio. O. Reg. 366/09, s. 14 (2).​

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Unfortunately, I have only found Bob Nichols' (MTO's Media Contact) interpretation of these sections; every article I've read about distracted driving preaches you can not program your GPS while driving. I've also found a discussion about GPS Systems prior to the ban.

Maybe there is another regulation other than 366/09 that talks about this? I can't find any published court decisions about mounted GPS use in Ontario motor-vehicles.

It could also be possible that you might legally be allowed to touch/use/program 'display screens' so long as it's securely mounted????



http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2009/...under-ontarios-new-distracted-driver-law.html

Faisal, Weekend Traveler

Faisal never leaves home without his hand-held Global Positioning System (GPS) device. Every weekend, Faisal plots his travel destinations on the device before he leaves home, but often picks up the device to make adjustments as he drives.

He will no longer be permitted to make adjustments on the GPS device while driving, under Ontario's new law. Faisal's first priority should be to focus on the road. He can only continue to use his GPS device while driving if he attaches it securely to his dashboard to verify his location. To drive as safely as possible, Faisal should use the device's voice command function to minimize the need to look at the GPS display screen. ​

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/distracted-driving/
http://traffic.cornwallpolice.com/en/traffic-initiatives-programs/distracted-driving.html

Actions such as dialing or scrolling through contacts, or manually programming a GPS device, for example, are not allowed.​

http://www.cp24.com/news/fine-for-distracted-driving-to-jump-by-more-than-100-1.1702605
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/distracted-driving-fine-to-jump-by-more-than-100-1.1702669
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...-distracted-driving-to-rise-by-more-than-100/

Drivers are also banned from manually programming GPS devices or watching display screens unrelated to the driving task, including laptops or DVD players.​

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-answer-a-text-or-phone-call/article17410378/

The MTO says drivers can touch a device to turn on or off the hands-free function, but otherwise they can't physically touch the device while driving. That includes giving instructions to the GPS and playing MP3s.​

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety/distracted-driving/FAQs.pdf

Drivers must program and activate GPS devices before starting their trip, and not touch the device while driving. MP3 players must also not be touched while driving and should only be operated through the vehicle’s entertainment system controls.
​

http://www.wheels.ca/news/ontario-limits-car-phone-use/

“I won’t say we are staying away from GPSs … but as long as it is mounted to the car it will be allowed,” the government source added. “Portable GPS, in the hands or in BlackBerrys, are covered under the ban.”

In addition to cellphones, McGuinty had mused about banning dashboard-mounted portable GPS navigation devices, which guide drivers to their destination with satellite-generated maps and turn-by-turn audio commands.

As well, some higher-end cellphones such as Apple’s iPhone and BlackBerrys are equipped with GPS mapping applications.

The devices have raised concerns that too many drivers are trying to input destination information on the tiny touchscreens without pulling over to the side of the road, thereby putting other drivers at risk.

The legislation would not apply to in-dashboard navigation systems that come standard or as options on many vehicles.

Most car manufacturers have designed the systems so that the vehicle must be stopped before the driver is permitted to enter or change route information.

That’s not the case with portable, aftermarket devices made by Garmin, TomTom and others, according to Tom Odell, a technology planning manager at General Motors Canada.

“Those devices are designed for a hiker, boater or someone in a car. But they have no knowledge of whether you’re in a car or not.”

However, some people argue that a strict ban that included all GPS devices would be counterproductive if it prompted a return to folded maps, or printouts from a computer.​

 

[Bike Cop]

Typical MTO... Lots of directives for people to follow, with vague laws to back them up. Last I heard, you couldn't be charged with something just because it was published on CP24's website. Good job digging all of that up, I just wish the regulation was a little more specific. I will keep my ears open if I hear anything else on the matter. And there may be some case law forthcoming that is applicable.

 

[dasiffy]

78.1(6)

Same
(6) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if all of the following conditions are met:
1. The motor vehicle is off the roadway or is lawfully parked on the roadway.
2. The motor vehicle is not in motion.
3. The motor vehicle is not impeding traffic. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.

all three have to happen

edit: confusing fixing

 

[bboySushi]

It's distracted driving. Most GPs all have a warning when they boot up saying "do not operate while vehicle is in motion" and you press OK.

Looking at your notepad is also distracted driving, yoe are reading text and looking down from the road while in motion.

 

[H4x0rz]

Display screen visible to driver prohibited
78. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway if the display screen of a television, computer or other device in the motor vehicle is visible to the driver. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.
Exceptions
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of the display screen of,
(a) a global positioning system navigation device while being used to provide navigation information;
(b) a hand-held wireless communication device or a device that is prescribed for the purpose of subsection 78.1 (1);
(c) a logistical transportation tracking system device used for commercial purposes to track vehicle location, driver status or the delivery of packages or other goods;
(d) a collision avoidance system device that has no other function than to deliver a collision avoidance system; or
(e) an instrument, gauge or system that is used to provide information to the driver regarding the status of various systems of the motor vehicle. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.
Same
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to the driver of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or police department vehicle. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.
Exemption by regulation
(4) The Minister may make regulations exempting any class of persons or vehicles or any device from this section and prescribing conditions and circumstances for any such exemption. 2009, c. 4, s. 1.
Hand-held devices prohibited
Wireless communication devices
78.1 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway while holding or using a hand-held wireless communication device or other prescribed device that is capable of receiving or transmitting telephone communications, electronic data, mail or text messages. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Entertainment devices
(2) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway while holding or using a hand-held electronic entertainment device or other prescribed device the primary use of which is unrelated to the safe operation of the motor vehicle. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Hands-free mode allowed
(3) Despite subsections (1) and (2), a person may drive a motor vehicle on a highway while using a device described in those subsections in hands-free mode. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Exceptions
(4) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) the driver of an ambulance, fire department vehicle or police department vehicle;
(b) any other prescribed person or class of persons;
(c) a person holding or using a device prescribed for the purpose of this subsection; or
(d) a person engaged in a prescribed activity or in prescribed conditions or circumstances. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Same
(5) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of the use of a device to contact ambulance, police or fire department emergency services. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Same
(6) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if all of the following conditions are met:
1. The motor vehicle is off the roadway or is lawfully parked on the roadway.
2. The motor vehicle is not in motion.
3. The motor vehicle is not impeding traffic. 2009, c. 4, s. 2.
Regulations

I've tried to explain and interpret sections of statute on other forums and only got flamed on. So this is the hta section for visible display screens handheld communication devices and electronic devices. I know what it means. But take it for what it's worth. Note the different definitions of highway, roadway, etc.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yup, it was this change to law that made it impossible for me to complete a project that I had started on; a voice controlled notebook computer used for audio entertainment and GPS purposes. The idea was to have a GPS screen that was so large that it would require almost zero attention to use, and function completely without the need for physical interaction. In other words my attempt to be safer was hijacked by law.

 

[iFly55]

I was reading a Top Gear article about the Tesla Model S, and learned about their monstrous 17" display screen.

It appears you can browse the web, while driving.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/maserati-ghibli-takes-on-model-s-2014-04-03

 

[sonyminidiscman]

not sure if this will help you. I was recently in traffic court, and one person says he was using his phone as a GPS. and the prosecutor says the device is able to transmit and receive and therefore falls under the category of handheld device.

From what I gather, if its a GPS, it is only able to receive and that should be ok. But I have never fought that battle, so I don't know too much else...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

not sure if this will help you. I was recently in traffic court, and one person says he was using his phone as a GPS. and the prosecutor says the device is able to transmit and receive and therefore falls under the category of handheld device.

From what I gather, if its a GPS, it is only able to receive and that should be ok. But I have never fought that battle, so I don't know too much else...

That has already been mentioned above. A phone, when being used as a GPS, is still phone. It must not be in-hand.

 

[unL33T]

You dont have to be holding anything. Operating a GPS while driving falls under the same law.

I m not about to look up the HTA, but as the law was being implemented they gave many instances of a charge and this was one of them.
I also know this due to all the officer interactions ive had over the years.

One tried to get me in North Durham for the same thing, but than realized it was a can of pop i was drinking ..

Even if that's true he said it wasn't the GPS, he said it was the phone. Or did I read something different than you?