Doug Ford - has your opinion changed?

[Scuba Steve]

Yet another reason we should have just told everyone to stay home for 6 weeks back in the spring, closed the airports and told everyone to suck it up.

100% this it would have worked been easy to do and had public support but instead we got a year long half ass lockdown that is good for no one.Now all we can do is wait for the vaccine might as well close schools until September.

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk

 

[ToSlow]

Could have shut down for 6wks, would have maybe slowed it down and save lives in LTC, but it would not have avoided Covid and the timeline of it moving through the province.

NS closed it border and they stil had Covid but not at the scale we seen here or Quebec.

I know the population is not the same but it still could have slowed to a manageable timeframe

 

[Evoex]

Could have shut down for 6wks, would have maybe slowed it down and save lives in LTC, but it would not have avoided Covid and the timeline of it moving through the province.

NS closed it border and they stil had Covid but not at the scale we seen here or Quebec.

I know the population is not the same but it still could have slowed to a manageable timeframe

its not about avoiding covid, it's about letting the people infected stay away from those who don't have it. thinning it out as much as possible so when you re-open, the transmission is minor and the hospitals aren't bursting at the seems. then you need appropriate controls on your inbound flights and cross boarder travelers, something we also didn't manage worth a damn.

also i don't mean just ontario, the entire country should have done it.

 

[nobbie48]

100% this it would have worked been easy to do and had public support but instead we got a year long half ass lockdown that is good for no one.Now all we can do is wait for the vaccine might as well close schools until September.

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk

If we hammered it in the spring there would be few cases and next to no deaths so the government would have been accused of over-reacting. I don't know if seeing the American situation would have changed opinions that much. Even with thousands of new cases a day here, people ignore and abuse the regulations. It's NIMBY so it doesn't matter.

Canada might have been be better off internally but too many people would have been chomping at the bit to go south, politicians and the self entitled more so than anyone. I don't think we could match New Zealand but we wouldn't be having so many small businesses folding up. We wouldn't be caged.

New Zealand has the advantage of being a somewhat remote island. One doesn't cross border shop like we go to Buffalo.

Trudeau has to quarantine at the border. Ford has to close the big box loop holes.

 

[Evoex]

If we hammered it in the spring there would be few cases and next to no deaths so the government would have been accused of over-reacting. I don't know if seeing the American situation would have changed opinions that much. Even with thousands of new cases a day here, people ignore and abuse the regulations. It's NIMBY so it doesn't matter.

Canada might have been be better off internally but too many people would have been chomping at the bit to go south, politicians and the self entitled more so than anyone. I don't think we could match New Zealand but we wouldn't be having so many small businesses folding up. We wouldn't be caged.

New Zealand has the advantage of being a somewhat remote island. One doesn't cross border shop like we go to Buffalo.

Trudeau has to quarantine at the border. Ford has to close the big box loop holes.

erm, no. Because all you would have to do is look south to see the results of not doing what we should have done. If opinions didn't change then we are morons.

and you know what, they could accuse the government for overplaying till the cows come home. The result would have been better then it is now and people are going to complain anyways so you might as well go save lives.

 

[GreyGhost]

If we hammered it in the spring there would be few cases and next to no deaths so the government would have been accused of over-reacting. I don't know if seeing the American situation would have changed opinions that much. Even with thousands of new cases a day here, people ignore and abuse the regulations. It's NIMBY so it doesn't matter.

Canada might have been be better off internally but too many people would have been chomping at the bit to go south, politicians and the self entitled more so than anyone. I don't think we could match New Zealand but we wouldn't be having so many small businesses folding up. We wouldn't be caged.

New Zealand has the advantage of being a somewhat remote island. One doesn't cross border shop like we go to Buffalo.

Trudeau has to quarantine at the border. Ford has to close the big box loop holes.

So skip the spring and do that hard lock down in October while we were already over spring numbers and climbing fast.

Agree completely with your last paragraph. Way too much politics and not wanting to offend/fight. Just make symbolic gestures while protecting your friends and hope for the best. Not the qualities a leader needs.

 

[ToSlow]

They must have known that they wasn’t going to avoid Covid.

Paying more attention to ways of slowing it so it was more manageable would have been something to look at, this in my eyes was the failure point,

They was chucking **** on the wall and was seeing what would stick

 

[Brian P]

If we had shut down all international traffic, including cross-border shipping (shutting down all industry and commerce that rely on cross-border shipping), at the time that we should have (probably February-ish 2020), for the amount of time that we needed to (until the USA got its ducks in a row ... which they still haven't), imagine the hue and cry back then for doing something "unnecessary" and "draconian".

Had the start of that been delayed thus necessitating a complete and tight lockdown PLUS cross-border mandatory hotel quarantine (like Australia did) ... just imagine what the rights-and-freedoms crowd would have screamed back then.

Even with our imperfect handling of the first wave, we did okay through the summer ... but we should have gone into complete and tight lockdown with cross-border shutdown/testing/quarantine when the numbers started creeping up in October. That one, there's not much excuse for. We had months to sort out how to handle cross-border truck traffic (and their drivers). We had months to sort out how to handle mandatory hotel quarantine (escorted to the hotel) for everyone else, possibly allowing for shortening the quarantine period if someone had a negative test ... we didn't.

It took until a couple of weeks ago to require someone to have a negative test before boarding an airplane destined for Canada. That ought to have happened months ago.

Mind you, all discussion about border crossings and airlines is on the federal government ... and Doug Ford has rightly complained about it.

 

[nobbie48]

So skip the spring and do that hard lock down in October while we were already over spring numbers and climbing fast.

Agree completely with your last paragraph. Way too much politics and not wanting to offend/fight. Just make symbolic gestures while protecting your friends and hope for the best. Not the qualities a leader needs.

If they did that, we could be looking forward to Valentines day, St. Patrick's Day, Easter, Mother's Day as times to get together instead of fearing the outcomes from the spreaders violating the rules. Opportunities lost.

 

[nobbie48]

If we had shut down all international traffic, including cross-border shipping (shutting down all industry and commerce that rely on cross-border shipping), at the time that we should have (probably February-ish 2020), for the amount of time that we needed to (until the USA got its ducks in a row ... which they still haven't), imagine the hue and cry back then for doing something "unnecessary" and "draconian".

Had the start of that been delayed thus necessitating a complete and tight lockdown PLUS cross-border mandatory hotel quarantine (like Australia did) ... just imagine what the rights-and-freedoms crowd would have screamed back then.

Even with our imperfect handling of the first wave, we did okay through the summer ... but we should have gone into complete and tight lockdown with cross-border shutdown/testing/quarantine when the numbers started creeping up in October. That one, there's not much excuse for. We had months to sort out how to handle cross-border truck traffic (and their drivers). We had months to sort out how to handle mandatory hotel quarantine (escorted to the hotel) for everyone else, possibly allowing for shortening the quarantine period if someone had a negative test ... we didn't.

It took until a couple of weeks ago to require someone to have a negative test before boarding an airplane destined for Canada. That ought to have happened months ago.

Mind you, all discussion about border crossings and airlines is on the federal government ... and Doug Ford has rightly complained about it.

Thought for the next election. "You failed us once, Shame on you. You failed us again. Shame on us."

 

[GreyGhost]

Thought for the next election. "You failed us once, Shame on you. You failed us again. Shame on us."

But who do we pick? I agree, all politicians in control have done quite poorly in the second wave (and some in the first wave as well) but so far I don't see a viable alternate. Honestly, I would love to vote for none of the above and if that won, we would have a four year cycle with just bureaucrats and no politicians. Teach the politicians that their pompous ***** really have little value and they are not wanted nor needed.

 

[Brian P]

Much as I don't particularly care for Trudeau and his well-documented foibles ...

I would not have wanted a Conservative federal government through this, pandering to big business and doing their best to be a mini Trump, avoiding lockdowns, probably unwilling to shut down international travel. No thanks. Honestly, I'm surprised by how well the provincial Conservative government has done. It has been far from perfect but it could also have been much worse. See: Alberta. (Or look south of the border, for an even worse situation.)

I think the situation that we have, federal Liberal minority government, is probably the best of the available possibilities under the circumstances ... far from perfect as it may be. Provincially? Let's accept that the Wynne Liberal government had to go. At the time of that election, before the pandemic ... they had to. Even if they hadn't been given the boot ... I don't think they would have done any better. Long-term-care would still have been the disaster that has been festering for decades and which hardly anyone knew about until the pandemic hit. That's been the biggest problem, and it wouldn't have been fixed before the pandemic hit, because it wasn't in the public eye. It is now. (And it's been the same issue across the country, and in other countries. It isn't just an Ontario problem, it's a worldwide problem.)

Unless you have an anti-lockdown position (see: USA. No thanks) how would a Conservative federal government done better? What would they have done differently? (Remember to go back in time to the information that was on hand at the time that decisions were actually made ... trying to avoid 20/20 hindsight.) I think they would have tried to avoid lockdowns, and we would have been in a comparable position to the USA, with regionally overwhelmed health care and a much higher death count ... and a scared population as a result, thus no better off in terms of the economy.

 

[nobbie48]

But who do we pick? I agree, all politicians in control have done quite poorly in the second wave (and some in the first wave as well) but so far I don't see a viable alternate. Honestly, I would love to vote for none of the above and if that won, we would have a four year cycle with just bureaucrats and no politicians. Teach the politicians that their pompous ***** really have little value and they are not wanted nor needed.

I have become demoralized about Canada's future. I keep thinking about JFK's inauguration speech "Ask not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country" Canada has the same problem, what's in it for me?

Therefore special interest groups vote for special interest politicians. They have created too many special causes over the years for a four year government to correct the situation. We need to cultivate a population with a long term outlook but that goes against the have-it-now mentality.

It would also have serious repercussions on the economy. Transitions are expensive.

 

[Mad Mike]

I have become demoralized about Canada's future. I keep thinking about JFK's inauguration speech "Ask not what your country can do for you but rather what you can do for your country" Canada has the same problem, what's in it for me?

Therefore special interest groups vote for special interest politicians. They have created too many special causes over the years for a four year government to correct the situation. We need to cultivate a population with a long term outlook but that goes against the have-it-now mentality.

It would also have serious repercussions on the economy. Transitions are expensive.

I worry that we will be a Greek tragedy at some point in the future. A country dependent on govt handouts that eventually drains the well.

Eventually austerity measures become inevitable. They don’t get accepted and the end result is a decaying quality of life.

 

[GreyGhost]

I worry that we will be a Greek tragedy at some point in the future. A country dependent on govt handouts that eventually drains the well.

Eventually austerity measures become inevitable. They don’t get accepted and the end result is a decaying quality of life.

It could be the near future if we elect JT again. He will see that as proof that he is on the right course and will continue to spend indiscriminately with absolutely zero thought for tomorrow.

 

[Mad Mike]

If JT approached me for a job, I’d consider him for a shipper/receiver.

He’s lived an entitled life that is far separated from the reality of the average tax paying Canadian.

 

[bigpoppa]

If JT approached me for a job, I’d consider him for a shipper/receiver.

He’s lived an entitled life that is far separated from the reality of the average tax paying Canadian.

I agree, daddy was a politician, spoiled brat sold dope in etobicoke, and gave his brat sons a factory and a business and they worked for nothing in their life

 

[GreyGhost]

If JT approached me for a job, I’d consider him for a shipper/receiver.

He’s lived an entitled life that is far separated from the reality of the average tax paying Canadian.

Nah, he's sales. First of all, he would be a useless tit as a shipper/receiver as he would be afraid of messing up his manicure. Secondly I don't want him touching anything as he will probably f it up and then just shrug his shoulders, give me a stupid grin and then go for break. Obviously he has the smile where people buy what stinky pile he is selling without bothering to dig deeper.

 

[Mad Mike]

Nah, he's sales. First of all, he would be a useless tit as a shipper/receiver as he would be afraid of messing up his manicure. Secondly I don't want him touching anything as he will probably f it up and then just shrug his shoulders, give me a stupid grin and then go for break. Obviously he has the smile where people buy what stinky pile he is selling without bothering to dig deeper.

Ok if you sell cars. If you need repeat sales, no go. Trust and integrity needed. Back to the shipping dock.

 

[GreyGhost]

Ok if you sell cars. If you need repeat sales, no go. Trust and integrity needed.

You'd think, but JT got elected twice already and is on track for number three. If your sales are targeted to the dumb and weak in the knees, he's your guy. If you are trying to sell to smart people that think for themselves he will bankrupt your business very quickly.