does ontario charge money for medical airlifts?

I never claimed to be a helicopter expert. Having to replace expensive pieces of the helicopter until its basically a new heli is still basically the same point I was making about helicopters having a limited service life based on hours.

You might be surprised to learn however that a holier then thou attitude doesn't impress anyone other then maybe your mom

If the helicopter is economically viable, it can last for decades. The basic airframe itself (ribs, stringers, panels, skin etc.) and the engines can be periodically checked for faults, repaired as is necessary and/or overhauled. Engines can also be time-expired, requiring outright replacement, or depot overhauling. This is the case for all aviation airframes, not just helicopters, with the exception of 'experimental' or private owner maintained (deregulated maintenance interval) aircraft. As long as the spares are available, or can be cannibalized, and it's economically viable to do so, the basic airframe can stay in the air for a long time in some capacity.

The helicopter itself is never really in, or returned to an as-new condition, unless it's a complete airframe strip-down, which can last months, if not longer, depending on it's size and complexity. Rebuilding an airframe is an incredibly expensive and time consuming process. As far as low-volume Governmental / Organization users generally go - it does stand a good chance of being sold off for a discounted price as surplus equipment when it reaches the end of service life/multiple requirements for major overhaul ("C check"), and a new helicopter purchased instead - and the new owner would then go through the 'renewal' rebuild process as an offset to the discounted price paid, before putting it back into service for their own purposes. Low-volume operators of aircraft generally can't have more than an airframe or two down for significant periods of time, when there is a critical demand for the inventory to be in the air with a very low failure rate.

A noteworthy case of a Helicopter in Canadian Forces inventory that really has lasted longer than it should have - the infamous Sea King.. that was due to long-term political inaction and bungling to replace it, rather than a service life with any notable reputation for reliability in it's later years. As it got older, the servicing man-hours required to keep them in air became just a little bit ridiculous, while the mean time between failures rate nose-dived.

The routine maintenance schedule is designed such that consumable parts are replaced via service interval, vs the actual wear noted, so that the aircraft doesn't unexpectedly drop out of the sky due to unforeseen mechanical problems, as much as it is humanly possible. The replaced parts can often be inspected, repaired if necessary, and if within specs, re-certified, warehoused, and reinstalled in the same or another airframe for another service interval period, rather than being outright thrown out.

With low production, low inventory, specialized and sophisticated aircraft such as these, it's an ongoing expensive exercise. Economic viability is often the limiting factor, not mechanical viability.

Military operators will generally operate and maintain an airframe from acceptance from factory to end of life at the boneyard, unless it's been sold off to another agency or foreign power after being declared surplus or obsolete while still serviceable. The ultimate contemporary example of this would be the Boeing B52 .. each of the basic airframes that are still flying, last rolled off of the assembly line in 1962. They've been rebuilt and reconfigured for new mission profiles more than a few times since, way beyond the designers theoretical lifespan of the airframe, and are still expected to be flying until 2040. Military operators have got the in-house maintenance facilities / contracts with manufacturers to rebuild the airframes over it's lifespan, and it's economically advantageous to do so, when the aircraft of the same type being operated are in the 100's, and not in the 10's, in terms of the fleet size - vs opening an assembly line back up, or designing and manufacturing a replacement.

Red_Liner740 is in the aircraft maintenance industry. He's trained for, and is well paid for that holier than thou attitude - his job depends on it. From his perspective, your claim of an extremely limited service life is basically misinformation to be laughed at.

I'm no helicopter expert either, but i have been made familiar with aircraft maintenance with a '46 Aeronca and a '59 Cessna C172 over the years.. so kind of know whats up on the recreational side of aviation - it's not too much different on the commercial side, fixed wing or whirly-bird - they have very tight standards of maintenance, in comparison, but the maintenance principles remain the same.

I'm sure that if i am incorrect on any of the above, Red_Liner740 will correct me also, with a higher than thou chuckle or two.

Wall of text, fwiw.. take it as you will.
 
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Lol @ nobbie

Thanks bandit that's an interesting read. One day I'm going to get my commercial heli license even if I never do it as a job. Life goals definitely include having flown one.
 
Don't mean to threadjack but since the question's been answered I have to ask... I never understood the claims that helicopter rides cost $20K or that a fire engine driving over costs $XX-thousands of dollars per visit. Since I was a kid I always figured it was statistical BS.

$50 sounds reasonable to me--even cheap--since it's mainly the cost of fuel they're consuming right? I mean, putting it simply, whether or not a helicopter gets called a pilot is always working on standby, the flying machine is still being paid off and undergoes regular maintenance, yadda yadda. So the only thing that really changes when they fly your *** to the hospital is the fuel bill (I'm sure there's more overhead to it than that but you get the idea). If there's a legitimate reason I'd love to hear it.

Aircraft have TBO (Time before overhaul ) limits. If an engine has a TBO of 1800 hours and a rebuild costs $18000.00, each hour of flight eats up $10 of the engine rebuild cost. That would be for a small Cessna / Piper type aircraft. Bigger engines, bigger bucks. Propellors have TBOs as well and heli blades aren't cheap. Some components also have time limits regardless of hours or whichever comes first. Logs have to be kept of all the TBOs etc.
 
It's a little tricky.

You need to have a valid health card to avoid the big fees, and your trip should originate from within Ontario:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/amb.aspx

"You are responsible for an ambulance service co-payment charge of $240.00 for each land ambulance service rendered, and/or the actual cost for each air ambulance service rendered :

if you are a resident of Ontario, and
you do not have a valid Ontario health card, or
a physician deems your ambulance service medically unnecessary, and
your ambulance trip originates in Ontario, regardless of destination.
You are responsible for the full cost of the land and/or air ambulance services received :

if you are a resident of Ontario, and
your ambulance trip originates outside Ontario.
Land and air ambulance services originating out-of-province are not an insured benefit under OHIP. Residents travelling outside the province are encouraged to purchase supplementary or travel health insurance, as some plans offer emergency medical and repatriation transportation for the ill and/or injured."
 
It's a little tricky.

You need to have a valid health card to avoid the big fees, and your trip should originate from within Ontario:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/amb.aspx

"You are responsible for an ambulance service co-payment charge of $240.00 for each land ambulance service rendered, and/or the actual cost for each air ambulance service rendered :

if you are a resident of Ontario, and
you do not have a valid Ontario health card, or
a physician deems your ambulance service medically unnecessary, and
your ambulance trip originates in Ontario, regardless of destination.
You are responsible for the full cost of the land and/or air ambulance services received :

if you are a resident of Ontario, and
your ambulance trip originates outside Ontario.
Land and air ambulance services originating out-of-province are not an insured benefit under OHIP. Residents travelling outside the province are encouraged to purchase supplementary or travel health insurance, as some plans offer emergency medical and repatriation transportation for the ill and/or injured."

That's more or less only relevant to those who have just moved to Ontario, often for the very reason of getting free health care. If I'm not mistaken it's a 3 month wait to get your OHIP card.. outside of that every resident should have one.
 
^ if you're on a bike trip to another province and have to be ferried back, you're paying for it, whether or not you have OHIP.

I'm not sure what happens to you if you are in another province and need ambulance to a hospital in that province.
 
I'm not sure what happens to you if you are in another province and need ambulance to a hospital in that province.

I've had alberta and ontario health care and both cover you anywhere in the country, i would imagine every province is the same that way. You dont have to come home, you can be treated where you get hurt, and i would imagine in some cases it's more cost effective to bring you back once your stable anyway.

If you just really want to get home ASAP obviously that would be on your own dime, all things considered i think thats pretty incredible coverage.
 
That's more or less only relevant to those who have just moved to Ontario, often for the very reason of getting free health care. If I'm not mistaken it's a 3 month wait to get your OHIP card.. outside of that every resident should have one.

It's relevant in a sense for people moving to a new province, but you just have to fill out the paperwork in your new province to make sure there is no gap in coverage. There's no reason why that would happen except for your own lazyness tho.
 
$50 sounds reasonable to me--even cheap--since it's mainly the cost of fuel they're consuming right?

$50 barely gets my truck to Barrie from Toronto and you expect a 10,000lbs chopper to get to-and-from for approximately that cost?? LOL!! I doubt you could even lift off the ground for $50 worth of helicopter fuel!!!!
 
Spot on Bandit Bill. Friendly Foe, I'm sorry if i came across as holier than thou, that was not my intent. Sometimes its hard to both write and interpret a persons tone via a text. Helicopters for their size are vastly more expensive to operate and maintain than fixed wing ac.

Its mind boggling just how expensive these parts are. I remember carrying a "black box" which is orange BTW out to replace one on a Airbus 310 and the cost was in the $350,000 range. I chuckled to myself and said "i'm carrying a damn ferrari in my right hand"

Getting a helicopters licence is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as a fixed wing a/c, even if you go for your dual powerplant, and ILS. I've known a few guys who basically went broke chasing their licence, 50K in the hole and throwing bags at the airport because they love flying and thats as close as they were gonna get to commercially flying one.


If the helicopter is economically viable, it can last for decades. The basic airframe itself (ribs, stringers, panels, skin etc.) and the engines can be periodically checked for faults, repaired as is necessary and/or overhauled. Engines can also be time-expired, requiring outright replacement, or depot overhauling. This is the case for all aviation airframes, not just helicopters, with the exception of 'experimental' or private owner maintained (deregulated maintenance interval) aircraft. As long as the spares are available, or can be cannibalized, and it's economically viable to do so, the basic airframe can stay in the air for a long time in some capacity. .........

.......I'm no helicopter expert either, but i have been made familiar with aircraft maintenance with a '46 Aeronca and a '59 Cessna C172 over the years.. so kind of know whats up on the recreational side of aviation - it's not too much different on the commercial side, fixed wing or whirly-bird - they have very tight standards of maintenance, in comparison, but the maintenance principles remain the same.

I'm sure that if i am incorrect on any of the above, Red_Liner740 will correct me also, with a higher than thou chuckle or two.

Wall of text, fwiw.. take it as you will.
 
Spot on Bandit Bill. Friendly Foe, I'm sorry if i came across as holier than thou, that was not my intent.

Getting a helicopters licence is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as a fixed wing a/c, even if you go for your dual powerplant, and ILS. I've known a few guys who basically went broke chasing their licence, 50K in the hole and throwing bags at the airport because they love flying and thats as close as they were gonna get to commercially flying one.

Oh i dont really care just thought id bust your balls about it. Everyone seems to write like that on forums, its the difference between coming across as hahaha you're an idiot, and actually thats not really true. It's all good.

Yeah i've looked into the cost. If i do it i will already have a trade ticket and a 6 figure income to fall back on. I want to do it as a bucket list sort of deal, if i were to pursue it professionally i would make sure to have an in through a friend or something before even attempting it. I'd be coming from the background of being an equipment operator already but thats probably not worth much.
 
I've had alberta and ontario health care and both cover you anywhere in the country, i would imagine every province is the same that way. You dont have to come home, you can be treated where you get hurt, and i would imagine in some cases it's more cost effective to bring you back once your stable anyway.

If you just really want to get home ASAP obviously that would be on your own dime, all things considered i think thats pretty incredible coverage.

While Canada has universal medical care each province determines its own coverage to some degree. A specific treatment may be covered in one province but be user pay in another. The differences will be minor compared to the USA which basically has none.

It is my understanding that US hospitals have to admit injured people and treat them until they are healthy enough to be discharged. If you don't have money or coverage and they can get you to stand up you are considered healed and stuffed into a cab to take you away.
 
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