Deck contractor question in regards to job and pay?

ajaxguy

ajaxguy

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So I hired a guy to build my deck. He has his own small company and gave me a time frame of 4 days with a break down of every day and what would be done, with completion on day 4.
His rate is $250 a day plus $125 for his helper( which i think is fair if not good). So that was last Tuesday and he has worked Tues- Friday, some on Sunday and was suppose to show up today to finish it but couldnt make it.
he has shown up most days around 11, sometimes 12 and even left at like 5 one day and stayed really late only one day.
So to speed it up i layed all the lower deck boards myself yesterday. I have paid him less then half the money on Friday just to be nice.

My question is, would you pay him for more then the 4 days or stick with the 4 days?
He left his expensive table saw and what not so i know hes not runnin outta town, but I think he is gonna expect more then the priginal 4 days, but i have the 4 days in email which would essetially make it a contract right?

Any input appreciated!
 
If he quoted you for 4 days I would stick to that unless there is a valid reason otherwise.
Starting at 10-11 is not a valid reason in my opinion.

That is just my thought.
 
When i was building fences I'd aim to be at the yard for about 7am, load up on whatever supplies id need for that day (posts, lumber, boards, gravel, cement, mini-bobcat, etc). I'd hope to be on-site by 9am at the latest.. most days i'd be on site by about 8 then i'd usually work till around 330-400.

Starting at 11am seems a bit strange to me. If i agreed to pay someone a daily rate and they were only on site from 11-5 I wouldn't feel like that was a full day's work.
 
Depending on the size of the project, I think you got a great deal. Suggest that if the quality of work has been good and he does everything on the plan then I would pay him a bit more.10 -15% Calculate how many hours they worked on it and be resonable. Have you made any changes that have caused the project to be extended etc. If he is good let me know.

Generally these guys will not park a truck and unload tools for less than $1 000 per day. (helper included)
 
STARSHIP said:
Depending on the size of the project, I think you got a great deal. Suggest that if the quality of work has been good and he does everything on the plan then I would pay him a bit more.10 -15% Calculate how many hours they worked on it and be resonable. Have you made any changes that have caused the project to be extended etc. If he is good let me know.

Generally these guys will not park a truck and unload tools for less than $1 000 per day. (helper included)
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Not true! When i was getting people to come and give me prices, there were alot of guys around that same price. Just look on kijiji if your inquiring yourself.
Its cash money for these guys so realistically $250 a day cash is good money.
 
Stick to what you agreed upon, unless he starts to talk about extra pay.
 
STARSHIP said:
Generally these guys will not park a truck and unload tools for less than $1 000 per day. (helper included)
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Wow, that's insane. You did really say 1000$ a day right? And they're still in business? I have a contractor I use for 200$ with me being his laborer/helper. I'm handy, but not THAT handy, so I'm more than happy to help and learn.
 
caboose483 said:
When i was building fences I'd aim to be at the yard for about 7am, load up on whatever supplies id need for that day (posts, lumber, boards, gravel, cement, mini-bobcat, etc). I'd hope to be on-site by 9am at the latest.. most days i'd be on site by about 8 then i'd usually work till around 330-400.

Starting at 11am seems a bit strange to me. If i agreed to pay someone a daily rate and they were only on site from 11-5 I wouldn't feel like that was a full day's work.
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I built cedar decks and fences for a summer and have to fully agree. 11-5 is a short day.
 
Just break it up

Basically he quoted you $375 x 4= $1500 (not sure if that includes labour or labour and material) i am assuming its just labour.

A day is generally considered 8 hours, so

$250/8 = 31.25 an hour for him

$125/8= 15.62 an hour for his helpers

or 375 a day

Now take $375 and assume that is for an 8 hour day for both guys and figure out if thats what they actually worked.

The quote is for 4 full days (32 hours), if he shows up and works 5 hours a day, then it will take him 6.5 days, it really doesnt matter to you, as you are assuming 4 full days of work.

Really, i would stick to the quote for the most part, or else its just a bait and switch, he comes in at a lower price then other estimates and gives u a sob story, and you end up paying more. To me thats not a fair way to do business.
 
Their 8 hour day might include travel time as well, so with lunch and breaks, you may only see 5 hours of straight labour on average.

Also, if junior gets hurt on the job, you'll be on the hook.
 
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ajaxguy said:
So I hired a guy to build my deck. He has his own small company and gave me a time frame of 4 days with a break down of every day and what would be done, with completion on day 4.
His rate is $250 a day plus $125 for his helper( which i think is fair if not good). So that was last Tuesday and he has worked Tues- Friday, some on Sunday and was suppose to show up today to finish it but couldnt make it.
he has shown up most days around 11, sometimes 12 and even left at like 5 one day and stayed really late only one day.
So to speed it up i layed all the lower deck boards myself yesterday. I have paid him less then half the money on Friday just to be nice.

My question is, would you pay him for more then the 4 days or stick with the 4 days?
He left his expensive table saw and what not so i know hes not runnin outta town, but I think he is gonna expect more then the priginal 4 days, but i have the 4 days in email which would essetially make it a contract right?

Any input appreciated!
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Make sure there is a permit taken out. If there is not and someone complains, the city can make you remove everything (their discretion). Have the quote in writing with completion date, total dollars and everything that is included. I have been in a similar situation and the contractor ended up asking for a lot more, when I asked part way through the project, which I then got rid of them as they were 'stretching' things out and found someone else. You should ask where everything stands and decide right there. Be firm and remember there are lots of other guys. Good luck.
 
STARSHIP said:
Generally these guys will not park a truck and unload tools for less than $1 000 per day. (helper included)
Click to expand...

I didn't ever have a helper but I never even came close to taking home $600+ in one day. I'm not sure what deck/fence builders you've talked to but I didn't know any that made that much.

Deck guys take home a bit more than fence guys because the work is a bit more intricate. That being said, my average take home was about $200-$250/day.
 
I would be prepared to pay the $1500 but no more unless it was a tip for some extra attention beyond the norm. To me the rate is low as I can't see a legit contractor making a go of it at that rate. WSIB, insurance accounting fees etc.

Cash is different. I know a guy who got out of the siding business because the rates had dropped so much. One of his competitors basically told him "Where I come from we had nothing. If I can make a thousand dollars a week I can afford an apartment with it's own washroom and have a car, food and clothing and save a bit for a down payment"

I run my little business and can understand why he shows up late but that is his problem as it is mine. The rate is for full days. The only big problem is scheduled completion.

If he is too cheap he will get lots of business but won't be able to sub things out or hire qualified people. Jobs can get out of hand as he tries to jump from one job to another to keep the customers happy. Cash flow goes down the tube as people start to bail etc.

If you're making progress payments don't pay up to the line or it may be hard to get him to come back to finish off the tiny details. Leave the juicey payment for the very end.
 
caboose483 said:
I didn't ever have a helper but I never even came close to taking home $600+ in one day. I'm not sure what deck/fence builders you've talked to but I didn't know any that made that much.

Deck guys take home a bit more than fence guys because the work is a bit more intricate. That being said, my average take home was about $200-$250/day.
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If you're excavating, digging/drilling fence/deck post holes and laying sod/landscaping, you have a dump truck with trailer and bob-cat, 2-3 guys, WSIB and liability coverage, yeah - it can get up there, especially if two of the guys are business owners/partners. In addition, you can easily pay more for a job by paying a crew less per hour when that crew lacks expertise and takes much longer to complete the job.
 
promac said:
If you're excavating, digging/drilling fence/deck post holes and laying sod/landscaping, you have a dump truck with trailer and bob-cat, 2-3 guys, WSIB and liability coverage, yeah - it can get up there, especially if two of the guys are business owners/partners. In addition, you can easily pay more for a job by paying a crew less per hour when that crew lacks expertise and takes much longer to complete the job.
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So now you're talking about landscaping too? Laying sod? None of us ever did that, if that was required as part of the job then that was done by a landscape company. We built decks and fences, thats it. Most guys worked on their own, I did, a few had helpers.

Dump truck?? I don't think so. I got by pretty easily with a V6 Ranger and a 5x10 landscape trailer. Tools in the truck, mini bobcat and/or materials in the trailer. None of the builders that worked with me had anything bigger than a half ton truck. None of them made $1000/day.

A huge majority of the cost of putting up a fence or deck is the material itself. For a fence only about 10% of the cost actually goes towards the labour to do so. A deck is about 20%.
 
So this guy keeps screwing me and screwing me! he was suppose to finish it yesterday and never showed up! He his a week behind schedule and now its a safety issue! he has left a top deck unrailed for 3 days now.
i have called him and let him know that it has be done tommorow or come get his saw and i dont need his services any longer and im not paying him anymore money.
I will hire someone for a day to come and finish it off, well i will try as i dont know who would come and do railings and finishing touches on such short notice, but for $350 who knows!

Oh and i provided all the materials since day one!
 
smis said:
$1000 a day isn't as rare as you'd think, Depending on the size of the company your dealing with. Just like everthing other biz, there's overhead. Taking chances on cash jobs is just that, a chance. It's all good when you get it done, but when something goes wrong, you'll wish it only cost you 1k a day.
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Perhaps for a bathroom/kitchen Reno I may regret it, but for a deck? I would never wished it cost me a retarded amount of money.
 
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