Go into a showroom like Apex in Cambridge. Most bikes on the floor are in that range and up.
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Damon Motorcycle
- Thread starter Yellowbalt
- Start date
To be fair 25K USD is still a pretty steep bike price (HD excluded). 25K CDN is probably the meat of the big bike market.
Yeah, they call it a "subscription", I call it a "lease". I would probably go that route regardless. If it's unreliable and/or has no value at the end of the term, they can have it back. I have other bikes to ride if this one breaks.
I'd feel much better if (let's say) Kawasaki bought them out, finished engineering, ironed out the bugs, and sold and warrantied them through their dealers. Somehow it seems appropriate for the same manufacturer to build the last hurrah for the high-performance gasoline engine (H2) then builds a comparably awesome replacement for it. The company is big enough to make it happen.
The problem I see is that I suspect the management/current investors are much more likely chasing money than vehicle success. Lots of pre-orders to drive up the value, then an IPO, then collapse once they have their money out? Much more lucrative for the insiders then a sale for ~market value to a real manufacturer. Maybe then, a real manufacturer can buy the pieces like they did with Mission.
I recently did the $100 refundable deposit on a Lordstown truck. I would actually be more worried from the investor standpoint. As far as I can see they are getting their pre-orders in to tell investors that there is 120,000 preorders x $52,000 worth of revenue on the way. Do the IPO thing etc. as you've said, from here they take their billions and spend it to launch the vehicle. If they run out of cash or buyers back out or the company can't make vehicles at a profit then the bubble is going to eventually burst.
It's a model that every EV start-up seems to be using (It worked well for Tesla... so far)
As someone who works in the automotive industry on the supplier side - on the subject of upstart manufacturers: Tesla succeeded because Elon Musk had plenty of money from prior ventures to sink into it. Rivian is very likely to succeed because they've got big backing from Amazon and Ford, and they're tapping into the experience and knowledge of many long-term suppliers in the automotive industry. Lordstown is a crapshoot and I'm leaning towards not happening. Atlis, as far as I can tell, is a zombie. Aptera seems to be limping along. Arcimoto seems to be limping along. Elio might as well be dead, but it doesn't look like they have given up the ghost yet. Several others have started and failed.
It's not an easy business.
It's not an easy business.
I also am in the automotive industry on the supplier side. In fact our newest customer is lordstown. Pretty confident it’s happening. They’re pushing hard for a fall launch. They’ve got backing from the us government for fleets. Also leaning on the same supply chain that previously supplied gm lordstown.
Whether the product is good/profitable we’ll have to wait and see.
Well that's good to hear, perhaps you've expanded my grapevine a little
An automation integrator that I worked with on some Ford projects was building the automation for Rivian's body-in-white line (which is done now, aside from the usual last minute commissioning and ramp-up headaches). Lordstown is one where my grapevine was bare. I'm curious to see how the hub-mounted motors work out ...I thought of another upstart ... Lucid Motors. That one looks like it's happening, although I won't be buying one (way out of my price range). I know who is building the automation for a certain critical chassis component on those. It's quite different from the usual design, and I'm curious to see how frontal impact works out ... they've already been through some engineering changes, and it wouldn't surprise us if there are more.
And another: Faraday Future. I knew someone who was building equipment for that project a few years ago, but that one looks like it crashed and burned.
Wandering back to topic, I just got a Twitter update from Damon discussing recent design changes. The engineer in me wants to know how close they are to "design freeze". That's the date when you make the call, "good enough", no more engineering changes unless absolutely necessary. At least from a distance, the bike looks close to production ready, although I still don't see rear-view mirrors, rear fender, reflectors, etc. You can't lock in your tooling suppliers until the design is frozen. Freezing the design without having all legal-compliance matters straightened out would be ... unwise. Even if all of those bits and pieces aren't necessary in all markets, they still need to be designed in. Whole lot easier to have all that designed in and then leave it out where not required, than make more changes later on to accommodate ...
My faraday future friends moved to canoo.Well that's good to hear, perhaps you've expanded my grapevine a little
I thought of another upstart ... Lucid Motors. That one looks like it's happening, although I won't be buying one (way out of my price range). I know who is building the automation for a certain critical chassis component on those. It's quite different from the usual design, and I'm curious to see how frontal impact works out ... they've already been through some engineering changes, and it wouldn't surprise us if there are more.
And another: Faraday Future. I knew someone who was building equipment for that project a few years ago, but that one looks like it crashed and burned.
Wandering back to topic, I just got a Twitter update from Damon discussing recent design changes. The engineer in me wants to know how close they are to "design freeze". That's the date when you make the call, "good enough", no more engineering changes unless absolutely necessary. At least from a distance, the bike looks close to production ready, although I still don't see rear-view mirrors, rear fender, reflectors, etc. You can't lock in your tooling suppliers until the design is frozen. Freezing the design without having all legal-compliance matters straightened out would be ... unwise. Even if all of those bits and pieces aren't necessary in all markets, they still need to be designed in. Whole lot easier to have all that designed in and then leave it out where not required, than make more changes later on to accommodate ...
Yellowbalt
Well-known member
They indicated that although you can use the rear and front camera, upon delivery of the bike, it will have side mirror as a complianceWell that's good to hear, perhaps you've expanded my grapevine a little
I thought of another upstart ... Lucid Motors. That one looks like it's happening, although I won't be buying one (way out of my price range). I know who is building the automation for a certain critical chassis component on those. It's quite different from the usual design, and I'm curious to see how frontal impact works out ... they've already been through some engineering changes, and it wouldn't surprise us if there are more.
And another: Faraday Future. I knew someone who was building equipment for that project a few years ago, but that one looks like it crashed and burned.
Wandering back to topic, I just got a Twitter update from Damon discussing recent design changes. The engineer in me wants to know how close they are to "design freeze". That's the date when you make the call, "good enough", no more engineering changes unless absolutely necessary. At least from a distance, the bike looks close to production ready, although I still don't see rear-view mirrors, rear fender, reflectors, etc. You can't lock in your tooling suppliers until the design is frozen. Freezing the design without having all legal-compliance matters straightened out would be ... unwise. Even if all of those bits and pieces aren't necessary in all markets, they still need to be designed in. Whole lot easier to have all that designed in and then leave it out where not required, than make more changes later on to accommodate ...
Damn, the reconfiguration moves things a long way (seat up 1.5", pegs up and back 3", handlebars down 4"). I would be shocked if that makes it to the production bikes.
Yellowbalt
Well-known member
Which one did you pick? You're going to need a bigger garage soon.
Priller
Well-known member
Happy Birthday!
HS, yellow. Something else will come off the road by then.
Congrats! Cant wait to see it.
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