Cylinder Honing Where? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Cylinder Honing Where?

FOG is definitely opinionated.
I was under the impression that a proper sunnon hone machine or equivalent could easily correct up to .005” ?
I’m I wrong and not understanding what I’m reading.. it appears to me that the honing operation is done after a boring to bring it straight and round, with boring left .003-.005” shy to ensure that the hone has enough material to complete its task.


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I tried racing an EX... mostly 'cuz my buddy Lu said it can't be done.
I have never seen so many catastrophic engine failures. I blew up a motor so good it broke a carburetor... HOW DOES THAT WORK?
I hate it when Lu is right (... and Lu is always right). Lu would know, he was building EX motors for Ed Saki and Ken McAdam at the time (mine was faster than both of their bikes, but mine blew up every weekend).
 
I believe there is confusion between honing and deglazing, I completely agree that deglazing is not going to help me.

I was hoping someone knew of a shop fist hand that has the proper honing machine in house.


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If a cylinder is out of round .005", it won't have any crosshatching left.
 
Jaymod said:
I’m I wrong and not understanding what I’m reading..
Click to expand...
I don't know if it's lack of understanding, or maybe just being clueless on the subject.
You use a hone for surface prep, to add "cross hatch" NOT to remove material.
To remove material, you use a boring bar. A boring bar will give you parallel cylinder walls, a hone WILL NOT.
It would take a week for a hone to go through 0.004"

I AM a "grumpy old man", and proud of it... and this grumpy old man sees that you are out of your depths.
Take your cylinder AND used pistons to someone that has a clue. BrianP has suggested KMM in Mississauga. Mr. Karasa has a clue.
 
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bitzz said:
I tried racing an EX... mostly 'cuz my buddy Lu said it can't be done.
I have never seen so many catastrophic engine failures. I blew up a motor so good it broke a carburetor... HOW DOES THAT WORK?
I hate it when Lu is right (... and Lu is always right). Lu would know, he was building EX motors for Ed Saki and Ken McAdam at the time (mine was faster than both of their bikes, but mine blew up every weekend).
Click to expand...

Lol, that’s pretty much why everyone on that forum says stock is the best. I know it’s not a great bike, but it’s what I have to work with for a couple more seasons.. I doubt anyone has a better then ex500 running that they would part with for $400


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bitzz said:
I don't know if it's lack of understanding, or maybe just being clueless on the subject.
You use a hone for surface prep, to add "cross hatch" NOT to remove material.
To remove material, you use a boring bar. A boring bar will give you parallel cylinder walls, a hone WILL NOT.
It would take a week for a hone to go through 0.004"

I AM a "grumpy old man", and proud of it... and this grumpy old man sees that you are out of your depths.
Take your cylinder AND used pistons to someone that has a clue. BrianP has suggested KMM in Mississauga. Mr. Karasa has a clue.
Click to expand...
I think he is contemplating a rigid hone. There is a chance that it works but there is a bigger chance that it gets worse. As packaged the rigid hone floats in the cylinder so it would jump around if the cylinder was out of round. You could probably come up with fixturing to hold it properly located but it would be easier and faster to put the block in a rigid machine and bore it.

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Lisle 15000 Engine Cylinder Hone

Find helpful customer reviews and review ratings for Lisle 15000 Engine Cylinder Hone at Amazon.com. Read honest and unbiased product reviews from our users.
www.amazon.com
 
No. The EX was a GREAT bike. WONDERFUL bike. I rode one for 13 years. I only get rid of bikes when they give me a reason, and it took that long to build up enough reason to get rid of it.
I sold it to Betty Boop, and she raced it, with a stock engine for years. I think she still has it.
The EX was great bike for what it is: a cheap commuter bike, and as a cheap commuter bike, there are few bikes that are better.
 
GreyGhost said:
I think he is contemplating a rigid hone. There is a chance that it works but there is a bigger chance that it gets worse.
Click to expand...
No hone will cut material and give you parallel surfaces. A hone is not rigid enough. A hone will follow the contours. A boring bar is rigid enough to cut off the contours.
Again a hone is for surface prep (or de-glazing, which is surface prep). If you want to change size or shape: you NEED a boring bar.
 
Wingboy said:
Donor motor.
Click to expand...
Are there any GOOD donor motors left?
Any EX that has been over revved will need crank bearings (they're famous for puking the left side crank bearings... because they're a cheap motor and the cases flex, which lets the crank "walk", which blows off all the oil pressure)
 
bitzz said:
Are there any GOOD donor motors left?
Any EX that has been over revved will need crank bearings (they're famous for puking the left side crank bearings... because they're a cheap motor and the cases flex, which lets the crank "walk", which blows off all the oil pressure)
Click to expand...
Probably hard to find. What's the competition?
 
bitzz said:
No. The EX was a GREAT bike. WONDERFUL bike. I rode one for 13 years. I only get rid of bikes when they give me a reason, and it took that long to build up enough reason to get rid of it.
I sold it to Betty Boop, and she raced it, with a stock engine for years. I think she still has it.
The EX was great bike for what it is: a cheap commuter bike, and as a cheap commuter bike, there are few bikes that are better.
Click to expand...

Your are correct, it does its job great.. my only complaint is its kinda ugly, there isn’t much out there that can compare with the same cost of ownership. Maybe SV650?


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Earlier you stated that there was no visible cylinder wear. I take it this means there is visible crosshatch all the way around and all the way from top to bottom. The area where the piston rings have travelled will be visible and this is normal, but not through the crosshatch, and any vertical marks are not enough to be felt with a fingernail and not enough to have gone through the crosshatch. That's normal cylinder wear.

If this is the case and the cylinders measure out of round, then the cylinders are warped. Your overheating incident (in the other thread) probably did not help your cause.

If the cylinders warp when unclamped then they can also warp when re-clamped. Means there's also some surfaces that also need to be checked for being flat and square.

I raced an EX500 back when I started. I couldn't keep head gaskets in them. Gave up and moved on.

I am on board with finding a stock donor engine ... if you can. I'm also on board with saying "it's time" and moving on to something else.
 
Well where the rings run is very polished, and front to back is feathered from basically no cross hatching (the odd deeper hatch is still visible) out to what could be considered normal. It “feels” completely smooth, and the piston still has that rainbow shine from the original machining with a couple of scuff lines.

Obviously it’s not good, even though it doesn’t look bad


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Maybe try posting some good quality pictures. Close ups. I'm sure that will help and eliminate the guess work.
 
Tried to get some pictures today, couldn’t get the lighting right.


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I have a stupid question for you.
Let's say you DO hone the 0.004" out of round and get the cylinder back to round and parallel
What are you going to do with it? Your piston won't fit anymore, it will have 0.010" piston to wall clearance and the rings won't work.
If it's out of round or not parallel you NEED to bore it to the next oversize and install an over size piston and ring set.
 
This is the information I’m working off of from another forum, it been quoted many times, and people have reported back that the results are great. There is also a procedure to lap the head so the head gasket can seal properly (which I have already done, the head and barrels were definitely not flat before)

But I can tell you from much experience. all you need do is hone you cylinders to be round and straight even if you need to exceed the wear limit by as much as ,127 mm .005"
The knurl or prick punch the piston skirt to rub into those new bores.

Then purchase a set on 1/2mm OS rings. re gap them to fit the new bores with a gap of no more that .005" throw away the new oil ring expander and use the old one as this item cannot be gapped to suit the bore size.


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