Some surprising numbers in this editorial.Well written by David Booth. Chronicle – March 19 – Cycle Canada
Cycle Canada article
- Thread starter Wingboy
- Start date
But they are into two wheels.
Some of the off pavement electrics I saw in Kauai were terrific.
Rad Power Makes Affordable E-Cargo Bikes For Everyone
2019 RadRover Electric Fat Bike
Where before might have been a Honda 50 or some such ....no licence, no insurance
Some of the off pavement electrics I saw in Kauai were terrific.
Rad Power Makes Affordable E-Cargo Bikes For Everyone
2019 RadRover Electric Fat Bike
Where before might have been a Honda 50 or some such ....no licence, no insurance
I know nothing about the watercraft industry but up at the cottage over the past 15 years we've noted fewer inboard/outboard boats, more personal watercraft and a huge increase in canoes, kayaks and waterboards. Also see big increase in the number of ATV's and off road bikes.
Interesting discussion. My thoughts: Young people today have a lot less disposable income, because salaries have not kept up with housing costs, and also the much tougher job market due to boomers' refusal to retire and free up the good jobs, since most of them can't afford to as they didn't save adequately for their retirement like generations before them. 30+ years ago it was much easier to find a job right out of high school that paid enough to support a middle class lifestyle. Now, more people than ever are graduating with university degrees and still struggling to pay bills. Not much money left over to buy a motorcycle when it takes 80% of your after tax income to pay rent.
You could probably write a masters thesis in economics on the motorcycle industry. But then you graduate with another degree that wont get you a job that pays what a high school Ford line guy makes.
The watercraft industry is a good comparison if we look at disposible income , health and recreation. My Yacht Club has seen a down turn in membership ( shortage of old white fat guys) , and boat size. Our largest growing segment is paddlers, SUP, kayaks and OC1's . They dont need a yacht club but we provide waterfront access and secure storage for condo and apt dwellers.
Insurance on my personal watercraft is $166.00 , one time registration. Insurance on my two sailboats is only $560.00 for a 24 and 30ft boat which includes coverage while racing, crash it and it gets fixed.
My triumph motor bike not so much.....
Where you see growth right now in motorcycling is "off road" adventure styled, and real offroad. KTM, Husq , et all, are banking on it continuing. Cheaper to insure, safer ( yes you crash, but you usually hobbil home from a tip over) , and its pretty fun tooling around logging roads. And it fits that whole I'm outside in the woods thing everybody likes right now.
The watercraft industry is a good comparison if we look at disposible income , health and recreation. My Yacht Club has seen a down turn in membership ( shortage of old white fat guys) , and boat size. Our largest growing segment is paddlers, SUP, kayaks and OC1's . They dont need a yacht club but we provide waterfront access and secure storage for condo and apt dwellers.
Insurance on my personal watercraft is $166.00 , one time registration. Insurance on my two sailboats is only $560.00 for a 24 and 30ft boat which includes coverage while racing, crash it and it gets fixed.
My triumph motor bike not so much.....
Where you see growth right now in motorcycling is "off road" adventure styled, and real offroad. KTM, Husq , et all, are banking on it continuing. Cheaper to insure, safer ( yes you crash, but you usually hobbil home from a tip over) , and its pretty fun tooling around logging roads. And it fits that whole I'm outside in the woods thing everybody likes right now.
Yes, the 43 percent sales of off Highway vehicles surprised me.
I believe the cost of insurance for new riders is a deterrent for many.
Sure, folks don’t mind spending on accessories and farkles etc.
But, insurance costs to ride a 250 cc or R3 for a new rider for a short season compared to other activities, I can see folks getting an ATV, dirt bike and trail pass and have at it.
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Sure, folks don’t mind spending on accessories and farkles etc.
But, insurance costs to ride a 250 cc or R3 for a new rider for a short season compared to other activities, I can see folks getting an ATV, dirt bike and trail pass and have at it.
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-Maverick-
Well-known member
That bicycle looks Rad... I'd buy one just to say goodbye to insurance.
These guys represent the new crews in Ontario. ATV's, PWC and Sled all for less insurance than a motorcycle. They are based out of a location near Kingston. Looks like they have a lot of fun in an area that allows ATV's. You need a small town for that.
www.youtube.com
The channel gets a lot of attention from the US, as they ride the ATV's in the winter.
The supersport industry has taken a severe beating. The dealers can't give the new generation GSX-R's away. They'll be sitting on that stock for the for a very long time...
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These guys represent the new crews in Ontario. ATV's, PWC and Sled all for less insurance than a motorcycle. They are based out of a location near Kingston. Looks like they have a lot of fun in an area that allows ATV's. You need a small town for that.
NOS Atvs
Atvs in deep water, muskeg, mud, deep snow and whatever else presents a challenge.
www.youtube.com
The channel gets a lot of attention from the US, as they ride the ATV's in the winter.
The supersport industry has taken a severe beating. The dealers can't give the new generation GSX-R's away. They'll be sitting on that stock for the for a very long time...
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Here's what I think:
1) Cost. Cars and motorcycles have become increasingly expensive for young drivers/riders. If you're 16, you can get added to mom's insurance as an occasional driver for about $1200/year. If you want a 200cc learner bike you'll likely pay double that plus you need the bike (unless mom has one she doesn't use).
2) North American MC industry focused on selling bigger expensive bikes. I loved the Honda CBR125 program, I'm guessing it attracted a lot of riders by making motorcycles and insurance inexpensive -- they sold lots of bikes, must have been cannibalizing sales on bigger bike otherwise they'd have kept it going.
3) Mechanical capabilities. 'GenX' most of my friends were able to do routine maintenance and minor repairs on their cars and bikes, and if you couldn't, most people had friends that would. Not so any more -- this can make owning a cheap used bike expensive, and drive buyer uncertainty on cost and safety.
If I were in the marketing department at Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki or Yamaha, I'd have 125CC out the door bikes for $2500 in every dealer showroom. They all have 125CC bikes that sell in Asia for $1200 or less, freight included, siphoning off a few thousand bikes a year to develop new Canadian motorcyclists should not be that hard.
$1700 CAD in Asia
$1100 In Asia
1) Cost. Cars and motorcycles have become increasingly expensive for young drivers/riders. If you're 16, you can get added to mom's insurance as an occasional driver for about $1200/year. If you want a 200cc learner bike you'll likely pay double that plus you need the bike (unless mom has one she doesn't use).
2) North American MC industry focused on selling bigger expensive bikes. I loved the Honda CBR125 program, I'm guessing it attracted a lot of riders by making motorcycles and insurance inexpensive -- they sold lots of bikes, must have been cannibalizing sales on bigger bike otherwise they'd have kept it going.
3) Mechanical capabilities. 'GenX' most of my friends were able to do routine maintenance and minor repairs on their cars and bikes, and if you couldn't, most people had friends that would. Not so any more -- this can make owning a cheap used bike expensive, and drive buyer uncertainty on cost and safety.
If I were in the marketing department at Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki or Yamaha, I'd have 125CC out the door bikes for $2500 in every dealer showroom. They all have 125CC bikes that sell in Asia for $1200 or less, freight included, siphoning off a few thousand bikes a year to develop new Canadian motorcyclists should not be that hard.
$1700 CAD in Asia
$1100 In Asia
I don’t think its from a lack of interest. I have a few 20/early 30 something friends who have expressed interest in getting into street riding. It really ends up boiling down to two problems:
Cost of entry – insurance makes it near impossible for people to get onto a bike until they are well into their 20s. Even at 24 I was paying $2200/yr to insure an r3 my first year of riding. I nearly bought a bike when I was 17, and at that time it was roughly $2800/yr to insure a CBR 125 – anything bigger was double that. Had the insurance been reasonable I would have been riding at a much earlier age. Besides that you have the cost of a bike, gear, licensing / instruction, maintenance, etc. It can easily cost $5-10k the first year just to get a starter bike on the road and the running costs don’t drop off much. I think once people do the math they realize it just makes more sense to get a car. Motorcycles are largely a luxury item and have very few practical uses in Canada. Isn’t there a statistic out there that something like 95% of people with a motorcycle insurance policy also have a car policy? The utilitarian aspect of a motorcycle is non existent here.
Disposable income – Most people are entering the workforce in their early/mid 20s with easily 20-40k+ in student debt. Then you have the rapidly rising cost of homeownership / living in general. Houses are out of the question for most now and even condos are becoming a stretch goal. Its hard to keep a high maintenance vehicle when you live in a 400 sq. Ft place and a parking spot runs upwards of $50k. Priorities are shifting and people can’t justify the expense anymore. By the time most have their life / finances at a place where they can swing a bike they are usually also at an age where the window for having kids is closing. If you don’t get people on a bike in their early/mid 20’s they probably aren’t going to consider it again until 50+.
Cost of entry – insurance makes it near impossible for people to get onto a bike until they are well into their 20s. Even at 24 I was paying $2200/yr to insure an r3 my first year of riding. I nearly bought a bike when I was 17, and at that time it was roughly $2800/yr to insure a CBR 125 – anything bigger was double that. Had the insurance been reasonable I would have been riding at a much earlier age. Besides that you have the cost of a bike, gear, licensing / instruction, maintenance, etc. It can easily cost $5-10k the first year just to get a starter bike on the road and the running costs don’t drop off much. I think once people do the math they realize it just makes more sense to get a car. Motorcycles are largely a luxury item and have very few practical uses in Canada. Isn’t there a statistic out there that something like 95% of people with a motorcycle insurance policy also have a car policy? The utilitarian aspect of a motorcycle is non existent here.
Disposable income – Most people are entering the workforce in their early/mid 20s with easily 20-40k+ in student debt. Then you have the rapidly rising cost of homeownership / living in general. Houses are out of the question for most now and even condos are becoming a stretch goal. Its hard to keep a high maintenance vehicle when you live in a 400 sq. Ft place and a parking spot runs upwards of $50k. Priorities are shifting and people can’t justify the expense anymore. By the time most have their life / finances at a place where they can swing a bike they are usually also at an age where the window for having kids is closing. If you don’t get people on a bike in their early/mid 20’s they probably aren’t going to consider it again until 50+.
Hate to say it, but I think a lot of it come down to lack of interest. The 20 something generation now don't have the same mentality that the 30 and up crowd grew up with.
How many of the city-lumberjack sort have you seen who couldn't even change a tire if their life depended on it?
Then there's the pasty white basement children who do nothing except play video games 24/7.
And the cellphone addicted crowd who would trip over a motorcycle in a parking lot before ever showing one iota of interest in actually riding one.
Sadly, times are changing. Anyone over the age of 35 or 40 didn't grow up in the same world the newer generation. Video games were rudimentary and occupied us for an hour or so when we had nothing else to do but they got boring and we put them away. The internet didn't exist, or was in it's infancy, and certainly wasn't the time-wormhole it is now. We went outside, we did stuff to entertain ourselves, we learned things, and we enjoyed it. Now, many just sit on their phones waiting for likes on their latest Instagram post, or for someone to comment on their latest Vaguebook status update. Heck, even for those who DO show interst show up for MC courses now and don't even know how to balance the bike because they never learned how to ride a bicycle. That speaks volumes.
There are exceptions to the stereotypes of course, but sadly, for many, they hold true.
Take away the 12 to 25 year old crowds cellphone, computer, and game console, put them in the middle of nowhere in a house with a garage full of stuff with gears and engines, and you'd be back to where we were....and many would go down the same path that whetted OUR interest in all things 2 and 4 wheels.
How many of the city-lumberjack sort have you seen who couldn't even change a tire if their life depended on it?
Then there's the pasty white basement children who do nothing except play video games 24/7.
And the cellphone addicted crowd who would trip over a motorcycle in a parking lot before ever showing one iota of interest in actually riding one.
Sadly, times are changing. Anyone over the age of 35 or 40 didn't grow up in the same world the newer generation. Video games were rudimentary and occupied us for an hour or so when we had nothing else to do but they got boring and we put them away. The internet didn't exist, or was in it's infancy, and certainly wasn't the time-wormhole it is now. We went outside, we did stuff to entertain ourselves, we learned things, and we enjoyed it. Now, many just sit on their phones waiting for likes on their latest Instagram post, or for someone to comment on their latest Vaguebook status update. Heck, even for those who DO show interst show up for MC courses now and don't even know how to balance the bike because they never learned how to ride a bicycle. That speaks volumes.
There are exceptions to the stereotypes of course, but sadly, for many, they hold true.
Take away the 12 to 25 year old crowds cellphone, computer, and game console, put them in the middle of nowhere in a house with a garage full of stuff with gears and engines, and you'd be back to where we were....and many would go down the same path that whetted OUR interest in all things 2 and 4 wheels.
On the upside, the complete lack of mechanical ability means that you can get great deals on non-running stuff. Often even free as people have no idea why it's not working, they just buy a new one with a warranty.
Even in my generation (40ish), if you talk about adjusting valves, nine out of ten look at you like you have two heads. Probably seven out of ten don't know what valves are or what they do. On the upside, the race to electrify everything will eliminate much of this gap as most electric stuff just goes in the garbage if the smoke comes out.
First off, the article refers to us as "bikers", I am not a member of a biker gang. I am sure many will flame me but the term has come to mean something and I think it is in the best to move on, motorcyclists... it is not doing anyone or the "hobby" any favours. No offence and with all due respect to real bikers, I am sure they do not want us lameos to be using their moniker... walking around telling people we are bikers... in some SOA t-shirt...
Other than that.... the costs are high. There is "competetion" from the welfare hogs (those license-less electric scooters) for those that need simple and cheap transportation (which a very long time ago a motorcycle was here) and are too lazy to pedal. Road cycling as a hobby has seen a large resurgence for the 30 plus crowd. Younger generation is less interested not just in motorcycles but also cars. None of it is good.
Other than that.... the costs are high. There is "competetion" from the welfare hogs (those license-less electric scooters) for those that need simple and cheap transportation (which a very long time ago a motorcycle was here) and are too lazy to pedal. Road cycling as a hobby has seen a large resurgence for the 30 plus crowd. Younger generation is less interested not just in motorcycles but also cars. None of it is good.
Lawnmowers and snowthrowers are a perfect example. My neighbor has gone thru 3 blowers in 5 years. First one, he lost the gas cap. Won't start, gee i wonder why? Second one stalls all the time. I told him to run it full throttle, but he isn't in a hurry so he runs it at "turtle" speed and shovels any snow deeper than 2 inches. Third one, same as the first. Keeps a hunk of plastic bag over the gas tank. Lost the "vented" gas cap. Stall!
I almost feel guilty taking advantage of those sorts of people. Almost. But never quite fully.
Yeah, I've scored some excellent deals over the years in those scenarios as well. Bought a $2000 pool heater (that was only a year or two old) for $75 3 years ago because a lady couldn't get it to light properly all the time without fiddling with it for an hour. Someone told her it was probably scrap and she should just replace it.
Needed a $15 thermocouple, still works great to this day.
Yeah, I've scored some excellent deals over the years in those scenarios as well. Bought a $2000 pool heater (that was only a year or two old) for $75 3 years ago because a lady couldn't get it to light properly all the time without fiddling with it for an hour. Someone told her it was probably scrap and she should just replace it.
Needed a $15 thermocouple, still works great to this day.
